Conversation with George Osborne; Conversation with Richard Powell; Conversation with Andrea Illy - Part 2



Conversation with Andrea Illy - Part 2>

Great Britain, talks about military support in the effort to defeat ISIS in

both Syria and Iraq. Richard Powell discusses the new exhibit at the

Whitney Museum called "Archibald Motley: Jazz Age Modernist." Andrea Illy,

CEO of Illycaffe, discusses coffee and new technology.>

Middle East; Policies; Military; War; Art; Entertainment; Coffee; Business;


What I do know is there will be some shock somewhere and Britain`s national debt has increased because of the impact of the great recession and the poor management of the public finances before.

Now, we`re putting our house in order, we`re fixing the roof when the sun is shining, to use an old John F. Kennedy phrase, and that means we`re ready for whatever the world throws at us.

CHARLIE ROSE: What the world is also witnessing is the closer relationship between your government and the Chinese government.

What does that suggest?

GEORGE OSBORNE: Well, look, we don`t have the same political system as China. We`re a democracy. They`re not. We have concerns about human rights abuses in China and we raise them.

But this Chinese government is the second largest economy in the world, representing a billion people and it is overwhelmingly in our interest that this strong emerging power is brought into and feels comfortable with the international system that Britain and America helped create.

So I want to make sure they have got their rightful seats at the IMF. I want to make sure that they -- you know, they get their --

CHARLIE ROSE: That their currency has the appropriate designation around the world.

GEORGE OSBORNE: Right. So if the outlet for China`s energy and ambition is that it wants its currency part of the IMF basket of currencies, I think that`s a great place for its ambition to be channeled.

CHARLIE ROSE: So some people have suggested that it is the end of the special relationship between the United States and Britain.

GEORGE OSBORNE: That`s just nonsense. We have a hugely deep, rich relationship with the United States, not just at a military and security level but culturally, economically and so on.

CHARLIE ROSE: Not to be replaced by China.

GEORGE OSBORNE: Not to be replaced by China.

With China, what we want to be is a partner for them as they`ve become this new strong economy and, let`s be clear, in my lifetime, the single biggest force of the elimination of poverty in our world has been the growth of China. Now I want to make sure that continues in a way that doesn`t cause us great problems, that can be accommodated within the international system that we, our two countries helped create.

Let`s be their partners, let`s help them on their journey of becoming a stronger economy with richer citizens and addressing their issues.

Let`s not be blind to all the differences and the disagreements we`re going to have and the issues we have over things like human rights. But to not have a conversation with and to not try and partner this incredibly important force in our world, I think, will be a huge mistake.

CHARLIE ROSE: Thank you for coming.

Great to see you.

George Osborne is the Chancellor of the Exchequer of the British government and also the first secretary of state.

Back in a moment. Stay with us.


CHARLIE ROSE: Archibald Motley is considered one of the great American modernists of the 20th century. He was born in New Orleans, but moved to Chicago as a child.

He first came to prominence in the 1920s during the early days of the Harlem renaissance. He is best known as both a master colorist and a radical interpreter of urban culture. His work often captured life on Chicago`s South Side as well as Jazz Age Paris and Mexico.

"Archibald Motley: Jazz Age Modernist" is the first full-scale survey of Motley`s painting in two decades. It is currently on view at the Whitney Museum of American Art in New York. The exhibition`s curator, Richard Powell, joins us now. He is the John Spencer Bassett Professor of Art, Art History and Visual Studies at Duke University.

I am pleased to have him at this table.



CHARLIE ROSE: Great to have you back.

We did a show how many years ago?

RICHARD POWELL: Twenty-five years ago.


CHARLIE ROSE: Before this show even existed.


CHARLIE ROSE: Put him in the context, Archibald Motley, 20th century art.

RICHARD POWELL: Archibald Motley is a colorist and a modernist, who is inspired by the urban scene and African American life. To contextualize him, one could place him in the category of American scene painting or one could put him in a category of portraiture or one could put him in a category of the Harlem renaissance or one could use all of those categories to place him --


CHARLIE ROSE: And he stood tall in each of those.

RICHARD POWELL: I would say so, yes.

CHARLIE ROSE: There hasn`t been a retrospective on him for some 20 years.

RICHARD POWELL: Yes. There was -- the last big show was at the Chicago Historical Society, now called the Chicago History Museum. It was in the `90s. And our idea at the Nasher was that, in the 21st century, this was a good time to look at Motley again.

And we thought this was an important moment to think about Archibald Motley and his work, given the changes in the art world, given the fact that African American artists are a lot more prominent now than they`ve ever been, given that there are a lot of artists that are very interested in satire and irony and humor and provocation. Motley fits right into all of that.

CHARLIE ROSE: What do you mean by Jazz Age modernist?

Is that just a chronological reference?

RICHARD POWELL: It`s also a culture reference. The 1920s and the 1930s was a moment when not just Americans but the world was inspired and moved by jazz, by urban black expression, whether it was Louis Armstrong or Duke Ellington or Josephine Baker or Bessie Smith. This was a moment when African American culture, modern African American culture, really took people`s imaginations.

And so Archibald Motley`s artworks really fit into that aesthetic milieu.

CHARLIE ROSE: How was he influenced by Chicago?

Because he was born in New Orleans and then moved to Chicago.

RICHARD POWELL: Well, Chicago was one of the most exciting places in the early 20th century. I`m not just saying that because I was born in there but it was a place that, unlike New York, had this incredible infusion of folks from the Mississippi Delta. It also had infusions of folks from Eastern Europe and Southern Europe.

And so there was this huge, huge migration of peoples from all over the world and it was a place where you had meatpacking and industrial activity and business was full steam and African Americans were quite entrepreneurial during that time period as well.

So this was kind of a hotbed of modernist ideas and innovation and art as well.

CHARLIE ROSE: Tell me about the Harlem renaissance and his place in it.

RICHARD POWELL: Well, when people think of the Harlem renaissance, they automatically zoom in on 125th and Lexington and that neighborhood. But, in fact, the Harlem renaissance was a mood, a spirit that infected people all over, not just in New York but in Chicago; Washington, D.C.: Kingston, Jamaica; Paris, France.

Again, African American culture was seen as kind of an antidote for the ills of the previous generation. People felt like they just couldn`t -- they needed an infusion of energy and newness and black culture really provided that.

CHARLIE ROSE: His use of color is really extraordinary.

RICHARD POWELL: Oh, it`s amazing. I mean, when you look at these works, you wonder, well, could they have been painted in the `20s and `30s because they have such a modern, contemporary kind of feel. He has this particular quality when he`s trying to invoke neon or he creates this kind of orange glow that encircles the figures. And I don`t know any artist who does that.

CHARLIE ROSE: You say what he painted was frequently a reflection on urban culture.

RICHARD POWELL: Yes. Yes. And that`s urban culture both in its celebratory kind of way but also when it`s got its challenging aspects. He was not afraid to tap deeply into all the things that make up the city, both -- again, both the celebratory and problematic.

CHARLIE ROSE: And he was a portrait artist as well.

RICHARD POWELL: An amazing portrait artist. Some of my favorite pieces in this show -- I was surprised they would be some of my favorite works -- are his portraits. They really capture not just a likeness but the capture a kind of an inner spirit of the subject.

CHARLIE ROSE: OK, take a look at some of these images and based on what we`ve talked before, talk about this.

The first one is 1933, this is a self-portrait called "Myself at Work."

RICHARD POWELL: Yes, Motley has just come back from Paris and you can tell with that beret and the smock. And he was a good Catholic, born in New Orleans. And a lot of New Orleans Catholics came up to Chicago and so you see the crucifix on the wall.

And he has got his palette in his hand and all of his colors are laid out very elegantly along with his brushes. This is a work that is a highly constructed composition that really speaks to all aspects of his identity.

Of particular note for me are the bookends of this painting. On the right, we have this Greco-Roman little statue in the lower right-hand corner. That`s his muse, this classical figure, a woman who speaks of industry and innovation and imagination.

On the left is this portrait that he`s painting, this beautiful nude of mixed racial ancestry, who, it`s hard to tell whether she`s a painting or she`s actually crawling out of the canvas to be a part of his studio experience.

CHARLIE ROSE: What do you make of the cross?

RICHARD POWELL: Well, again, he`s a Catholic. And he was born and raised a Catholic. And there are a lot of black Catholics in Chicago, present company included.

CHARLIE ROSE: All right. The next thing is "Portrait of Mrs. A.J. Motley," this was painted in 1930.

RICHARD POWELL: Archibald Motley married his childhood sweetheart, who was a German American woman, Edith Granzo Motley. And they had a very stormy relationship, let me say. It was not easy being an interracial couple in Chicago in the 1920s and 1930s.

In fact, her family pretty much was estranged from Motley and his family. This portrait, which I really like, is a portrait that shows her at the height of his talent and his career.

She`s wearing that wonderful fur fox boa; she`s holding gloves in her hand, there`s a painting on the wall behind her, I mean, she`s a woman of success connected to a very important and prominent artist.

CHARLIE ROSE: And next, "A Nude Portrait of My Wife," 1930.

RICHARD POWELL: Same woman but a very different image. This was painted in Paris and I think it speaks to modernity, the nude as a kind of a radical, expressive statement.

I`ve often described this work in conjunction with Neue Sachlichkeit, that movement in Germany that was about photographic accuracy but also a strange kind of undercurrent of dis-ease and one really feels that in this portrait of Edith.

In fact, in the lower right-hand corner where Motley signs his name, you can see Paris and he really kind of underscores that this is a continental image.

CHARLIE ROSE: The next is "Mulatress with Figurine and Dutch Seascape," 1920.

RICHARD POWELL: As we say in the vernacular, Motley was color-struck.


RICHARD POWELL: He was preoccupied with --


RICHARD POWELL: -- interracial mixtures. And this is a legacy of Louisiana. Louisiana is a culture where you have mixed race people and variations in hair and color and he`s really kind of continuing that fascination in this portrait.

But I would also add that this is a mixed-race woman, who is enigmatic and at the same time a seductress. If you look at that little sculpture to her left, the headless, armless, male nude, I mean, I really think there is a kind of subliminal message about the power of her feminine wiles.

CHARLIE ROSE: The next is "Tongues." These are 1929.

RICHARD POWELL: Well, as I said, Motley was a Roman Catholic. But he was fascinated with the sanctified church, you know --

CHARLIE ROSE: What is a sanctified church?

RICHARD POWELL: -- the church of people who came up from the Mississippi Delta, who were not connected to an organized religion. They opened up churches in little storefronts and garages. And this painting really reflects that, that this new pop-up kind of religious, expressive, ecstatic experience.

CHARLIE ROSE: It`s still part of us in parts of fundamental Christianity.

RICHARD POWELL: And what also makes this work stand out for me is the prominence of women in the sanctified church. Unlike organized religion, in the Pentecostal churches, women play prominent roles and we see them all throughout this composition, particularly the woman in white.

CHARLIE ROSE: Next is a -- "Blues" from 1929.

RICHARD POWELL: Yes, yes. If you Google the Harlem renaissance, you will see this painting, this is the painting that is most iconic for that era.

CHARLIE ROSE: And look at the color.

RICHARD POWELL: Yes. And the irony is that it wasn`t painted in Harlem or Chicago; it was painted in Paris. We think it was a club called Le Bal Negre, which was a club, I believe, in the 14th or 15th Arrondissement that was patronized by everybody.

CHARLIE ROSE: How long was he in Paris?

RICHARD POWELL: He was in Paris for about a year. He got a Guggenheim, one of the first African American artists to get a Guggenheim, and it took him to Paris and he loved it.

He had a diary which we have access to, he talks about working by day and partying night.

CHARLIE ROSE: Indeed, that`s what they do in Paris.

"Cafe Paris," 1929, again, this year was 1929 that he spent there.

RICHARD POWELL: Exactly, yes. What`s really great is that we have been able to identified a lot of these locations. We think this might be a cafe called Au Reve, The Dream. And it shows, again, people in the cabarets and the cafes, drinking, the characters both outdoors and indoors.

Motley, again, really made his home for that brief year in Paris, although by the end of that year, when the Guggenheim Foundation said do you want to extend your stay, he said, no, I`ve got to come back to Chicago.

CHARLIE ROSE: "Getting Religion" is 1948, this is so -- a later period.

RICHARD POWELL: It is. And what`s particularly fascinating for this work for me is the address on the house on the back is 350. And his address was 350 West 60th street in Chicago, so this might be an autobiographical painting. There`s a little boy sitting on the porch and he`s looking at all of the activity going on, the old men, the young women, the street singers, the bands of church people.

Motley was incredibly talented at capturing Bronzeville, this African American community in Chicago, that, as Langston Hughes described, it was when you went there at night, it was like daytime because the neon lights and the street lamps and the people were just filling the streets.

CHARLIE ROSE: OK, next is "Hot Rhythm," 1961.

RICHARD POWELL: This is one of the latest works in the show and you can see that Motley, by this point, is in his 70s, still has the artistic chops. And this is not the Jazz Age as much as it is -- well, it is the Jazz Age but not the Louis Armstrong Jazz Age.

This is the Jazz Age of Ahmad Jamal in Chicago. And so we see the big band, we see the chorus girls, and yet it has the same sense of using the urban energy and the energies of jazz and syncopation and using the subjects of people but really translating those people into wedges, into shapes, into patterns that will speak in and of themselves of that energy.

CHARLIE ROSE: Congratulations.

RICHARD POWELL: My pleasure, thank you.

CHARLIE ROSE: It`s great to have you here. Say hello to my friend at Duke.


CHARLIE ROSE: "Archibald Motley: Jazz Age Modernist" is on view at the Whitney Museum downtown until January 17th, until January 17th.

If you`re in New York, go see it. Back in a moment. Stay with us.


CHARLIE ROSE: Andrea Illy is here, he is chairman and CEO of Illycaffe, the global coffee icon was founded by his grandfather in 1933. Today the company operates in more than 140 country and is served in over 100,000 of the world`s top cafes, restaurants and hotels.

Illy expanded recently to include stores with signature espresso machines and other items. The coffee world is being introduced to climate change and a lack of growing sites that pose new challenges to the industry. I am pleased to have Andrea Illy at this table for the first time.


ANDREA ILLY: Oh, thank you for having me.

CHARLIE ROSE: Tell me about your grandfather.

ANDREA ILLY: Yes. My grandfather was Hungarian and he was very courageous. He left home very young and he went from Hungary to Vienna and there, he fell in love with coffee, supposedly -- because he didn`t tell me.

And then as a soldier after the First World War, he came to Trieste and he decided to stay because he found the two other loves of his life, the city of Trieste and his wife. And after a few years he decided to found the Illycaffe, pursuing the dream to offer the greatest coffee to the world.

And he did it already with two big innovations in hand. One was the pressure espresso, which didn`t exist at that time and the pressurization, in order to preserve and enhance the aroma of coffee. So he really started with a completely innovative let`s say technology in coffee.

CHARLIE ROSE: So he actually pioneered the espresso machine?

ANDREA ILLY: Yes, he pioneered the -- the espresso machine was already existing before but it was with no pressure.

CHARLIE ROSE: With pressure, so --

ANDREA ILLY: He did introduce pressure for the sake of, you know, lowering the temperature for better aroma because too high temperature makes the coffee bitter.

He wanted to lower the temperature, no pressure, so he added extended pressure and here is how pressure espresso was born with all the crema and the velvet mouth feel that you can enjoy with a cup of espresso now.

CHARLIE ROSE: It`s a private company or public company?

ANDREA ILLY: It`s 100 percent family owned and family operated.

CHARLIE ROSE: And how many family members work in the firm?

ANDREA ILLY: Well, in the governance, we are all of us. Eight are in the holding or directly in the operation of company Illycaffe and in the management, we are myself as the CEO. And then two representatives of the next generation, so my nephew and my niece.

CHARLIE ROSE: You have said that the three virtues of coffee are pleasure, health and sustainability.

ANDREA ILLY: Absolutely.

Well, we drink coffee for pleasure, right?


ANDREA ILLY: Because caffeine could be a reason to drink coffee but there are many other ways to get caffeine. So if you choose coffee, it`s because it`s pleasure.

So in the last 20 years and particularly in starting from this country, from the United States, a positive revolution made coffee much more aesthetical and experiential. And this helped to -- this has been, by the way, inspired by Italy, the Italian espresso and cappuccino, the barista, the coffee shops, all this culture of Italian coffee came to this country.

And then this positive revolution made not only coffee to become more popular, more accessible but, thanks to quality, much better quality, coffee was able to develop its rich goodness.

The first goodness is pleasure, much better quality in the cup, better beans, better preparation technologies for more consistency, better places to enjoy coffee, more variety, more different origins or recipes, so you can enjoy -- very much like in wine.

CHARLIE ROSE: Coffee is grown, beans are grown in how many different countries?

ANDREA ILLY: Coffee is grown in 70 countries, all in the south of the world, most of them are still developing countries, by 25 million families. So this is something that is part, let`s say, of things which did positive -- which occurred during these 20 years.

CHARLIE ROSE: Beyond pleasure, what is the evidence that it is good for you, that it`s good for health?

ANDREA ILLY: Health: you know, there are 25,000 scientific studies about coffee and health, which, particularly in the last 15 years, confirm that coffee is not bad for health.

CHARLIE ROSE: OK, we`re talking about good for health, not the absence of --

ANDREA ILLY: No, wait, but there many, let`s say, epidemiological studies confirming that actually coffee prolongs your life. Seven of those studies only last year. So in the slogan, we can say that if you drink coffee, you live better and longer.

CHARLIE ROSE: And how is it that it prolongs your life?

ANDREA ILLY: Because this is unknown but the very probably is because it`s the most effective preventative cure against the elder ages diseases.

CHARLIE ROSE: Then I`m going to live forever.

ANDREA ILLY: The degenerative diseases like Alzheimer`s and Parkinson`s are prevented or postponed by coffee.

CHARLIE ROSE: And there is medical evidence of this?

ANDREA ILLY: There are medical (INAUDIBLE). So epidemiological evidence. No clinical studies because this is a little bit more difficult to get.

CHARLIE ROSE: Why is it difficult to get clinical studies?

ANDREA ILLY: Clinical studies are usually typically very long; they require a lot of budget and too many people, cohorts. And there are many, you know, confounding factors. So this is why clinical studies are a little bit difficult to make.

CHARLIE ROSE: Good, but some people talk about coffee beans as having kind of an antioxidant factor.

ANDREA ILLY: It is. This might be one of the reasons why coffee is so good for health, because it`s -- in the American diet, in particular, it`s the number one contributor in term of antioxidants. All the substances which are responsible for the brown color of coffee, so-called melanoidins, are antioxidants. And on top of this, there are natural antioxidants, polyphenols, present in coffee which, combined with these melanoidins, make such a strong antioxidant effect.

CHARLIE ROSE: Take me from the bean to the cup.

ANDREA ILLY: Well, the bean is grown on a Rubiaceae plant. There are two species are grown, Arabica, which is the best quality. Two-thirds of the Arabica is produced in Latin America and then Brazilian being by far the leader.

The other one is so-called Robusta, let`s say a lower grade. And once the crop is one time per year. Each time you make the crop, you can process the crop either by letting the cherry, in which you have the coffee beans drying under the sun, or washing it and by fermenting, very much like in wine.

And then once the coffee is processed, of course you have to take a lot of care on the agronomical practices because you can damage the quality, original quality on the plant by mismanaging the agronomical practices. This is why we created the university of coffee in order to teach the growers how to elevate their agronomical practices for better quality.

Then coffee is then processed, bagged and exported. We have to import for 20 countries --

CHARLIE ROSE: From 20 countries?

ANDREA ILLY: Yes. We import from 20 countries --

CHARLIE ROSE: -- perfect blend?

ANDREA ILLY: Illy has one blend.


ANDREA ILLY: Because this dream of my grandfather, offering the greatest coffee, the best can only be one. So one blend. The only brand in the world offering only one blend.

So it`s a blend of nine Arabica beans exclusively made for Illy by these growers which have been trained --


ANDREA ILLY: No, no, not only in Brazil, Brazil, in (INAUDIBLE), Costa Rica, Guatemala, India -- India as well, Tanzania and so many other countries.

And so we receive all the blends, all the beans. We store them because we have to buy these beans immediately after the crop in order to make sure that all of the best possible production has been made for us exclusively. So we must be buying immediately.

So we store this coffee then we blend and we roast.

Roasting is one of the exclusive knowledge, really, in order to really -- because you know that all of the 1,000 aromas of coffee are generated during roasting. People don`t know that.

The flavors which are present in the green coffee have nothing to do with the final flavor of roasted coffee. So actually quality is originated during -- in the bean and then during roasting, this is a critical phase in which you really have to be perfect.

CHARLIE ROSE: America is a coffee-drinking country.


CHARLIE ROSE: Even more so than tea, I think.

ANDREA ILLY: America is the number one coffee market in the world by far and not only is also dynamically growing, there is also in value, there is a -- let`s say, increase in the value per cup consumed, which is really an interesting country to be.

CHARLIE ROSE: I`m asking that because, when you took over the company, I think you had -- when you took over the company as CEO, there were about 29 -- you and 29 countries, correct?

ANDREA ILLY: Yes, we were in 29 countries and now we are in 144. Yes, this really -- it became global.

CHARLIE ROSE: And that was under your initiative.

ANDREA ILLY: It was. You know, no personal initiative. We are a family and we are a team, so we operate all together. So, yes, it was something that I executed, along with my team.

CHARLIE ROSE: What has Starbucks done for coffee?

ANDREA ILLY: Yes, they changed the culture. They brought quality coffee to the Americans.

As a matter of fact, before their arrival, their development, it was nearly impossible to get a decent cup of coffee out of home. So they kind of filled the gap because there were no places where to drink coffee.

So this idea of the Italian cafe, the Italian bars deployed also in the United States was good for getting access to quality and also they had for the consumer discovering the coffee culture.

CHARLIE ROSE: But in your marketing you talk about high end but not luxury?

ANDREA ILLY: Yes. High end, not luxury because coffee is inclusive, so everybody should be able to afford a good cup of coffee. So it`s something that you cannot make exclusive to the point that you exclude consumers from coffee.

CHARLIE ROSE: Has your mission changed since your grandfather founded the company?

ANDREA ILLY: Well, we are still pursuing the dream. The dream of offering the greatest coffee is constantly, let`s say, implemented by adding new technologies, new initiatives. It`s really challenging mission, the one that we have. It`s about delighting lovers of goodness and beauty all over the world. You know, with three pillars, which is the best coffee nature can provide enhanced with the best technology and beauty. Because technology, besides processing, we need the coffee equipment, as we spoke. We still develop and produce our own coffee machines.

CHARLIE ROSE: And how much has that contributed to your overall revenue?