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ExxonMobil CEO Met With President-Elect Today; Reports: Explosions,
Gunfire in Istanbul; Indiana's Rexnord to Close Plant, Move 300 Jobs
to Mexico; Deloitte Leads on Paid Family Leave. Aired 5-6p ET - Part 1>
[17:00:37] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour. I'm Poppy Harlow in New York. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. So glad you're with us. We begin with politics, and President-Elect Donald Trump taking on U.S. Intelligence Agencies, he will oversee soon as commander-in-chief. In a stunning move, his transition team slammed the CIA over reports that the agency believe Russian hackers intervened in the election with the specific intent of helping Donald Trump win. Those intelligence agencies are not saying, though, that it swayed the election.
Russia, for its part, is saying, where is the evidence? And here's what Trump's transition team put out in a statement last night. Quote, "These are the same people that said Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. The election ended a long time ago and one of the biggest Electoral College victories in history. It's now time to move on and Make America Great Again." The CIA is not commenting. Trump's assertion that the intelligence team of today is the same as 13 years ago when they had the faulty WMD intelligence, well, that's not true.
Our Ryan Nobles is live for us in Baltimore with more where Trump is watching the army navy college football game. I understand, Ryan, that you just spoke with Senator John McCain, who is also there. And specifically, when it comes to Russia, you asked him about the man who is now leading on Donald Trump's list for Secretary of State, that is Exxon Mobil CEO Rex Tillerson. What did McCain say?
RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Poppy. You know, our sources are telling us that Tillerson is right now at the top of the list for President-Elect Trump. And Senator McCain told me that concerns him. Because of Tillerson's close ties to the Russian government. As the CEO of Exxon Mobil, he negotiated a big deal with the largest oil company in Russia, of which the Russian government is its top investor. And Senator McCain says, he wants to know where Tillerson stands as it relates to Russia's role in the world before he gives him his support in confirmation.
Take a listen to what McCain told me.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I have obviously concerns of reports of his relationship with Vladimir Putin, who is a thug and a murderer. But that's the -- we will have hearings, and that issue and other issues concerning him will be examined, and then that's the time to make up your mind as to whether to vote yes or no.
NOBLES: So what kind of questions would you ask Rex Tillerson that would make you feel comfortable about him in a role like that?
MCCAIN: His view of Vladimir Putin and his role in the world, and, for example, the fact that Boris Namshaft (ph) who is the leader of the opposition was murdered on the orders, I believe of Vladimir Putin in the shadow of the Kremlin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOBLES: And I asked Senator McCain if he has concerns broadly about how the President-Elect feels about Russia and how he'll interact with Russia and he said that he's going to wait and see until President- Elect Trump actually takes office and said that he's very happy with his pick for Secretary of Defense in General James Mattis and how Mattis views the relationship with Russia. So, this is something that obviously McCain is concerned about but he wants to see what happens in these confirmation hearings before making his final decision -- Poppy.
HARLOW: And we don't know who the pick is going to be yet. But I do have some brand-new reporting that sheds some light on this. From our John King. Let me read it to you in full. John King just reporting now that Rex Tillerson has told the President-Elect that he would be honored to have the job of secretary of state. He said this as he left the meeting of the two of the men had today at Trump Tower. And he left that meeting, John King reports, believing that he will be the pick. This is according to two sources familiar with his thinking.
One of those sources telling our John King that Tillerson was told that the President-Elect will formalize his choice next week, that is in line by the way with what the Trump transition team just said today. Both of these sources telling our John King that, you know, they did not use their names. This was given on condition of anonymity because they are not authorized to discuss the issue with their names. But, again, the headline there, Rex Tillerson left this meeting believing he's going to be the pick. I understand, Ryan, that Donald Trump just gave an interview to Chris Wallace at FOX News. What's the highlight from that?
NOBLES: Yes, well, Wallace asked Donald Trump what he likes about Rex Tillerson, and it's interesting that a lot of the criticisms, perhaps, that Tillerson has received over the past 48 hours about his possible nomination are things that Trump seems to view as strengths. Listen to what he told Chris Wallace.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS HOST: Let me ask you about Rex Tillerson.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT-ELECT: Okay.
WALLACE: Head of Exxon Mobil. Why does a business executive make sense as the chief diplomat?
TRUMP: Well, in his case, he's much more than a business executive. I mean, he's a world class player. He's in-charge of I guess the largest company in the world. He's in charge of -- an oil company that's pretty much doubled the size of his next nearest competitor. It's been a company that's been unbelievably managed. And to me, a great advantage is he knows many of the players. And he knows them well. He does massive deals in Russia. He does massive deals for the company. Not for himself, but for the company.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[17:05:52] NOBLES: So you see there, Donald Trump saying that those close ties to Russia are actually an attribute. The polar opposite of what John McCain told us just a few hours ago. So Poppy, this just shows us, we are in for quite a rocky road in terms of the confirmation process if it ends up being Tillerson, because Donald Trump clearly behind him, and there are others who have serious concerns.
HARLOW: We'll be watching it all again. The Trump team saying, no official announcement until next week. Thank you very much, Ryan Nobles. We appreciate it. Let's talk about all of this with my panel.
Buck Sexton is with me, former CIA counterterrorism analyst, host of "The Buck Sexton Show" in The Blaze. And he voted for Donald Trump. Kim Dozier is with us, CNN global affairs analyst and contributing writer for The Daily Beast.
Let me just get your take on this, Buck, as a Trump supporter, as a Republican, what Trump just said to Chris Wallace about if he picks Rex Tillerson to be Secretary of State. He said a great advantage is that he knows many of the players and he knows them well. He does massive deals in Russia. OK. Given the relationship and the strains between shall I say the United States and Russia, is that an advantage? Or should that be something that the American people should be concerned about that he has a pretty friendly relationship with Russia and Vladimir Putin?
BUCK SEXTON, FORMER CIA COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: Well, I think it's fascinating that we have come out of eight years of an administration that has specifically reached out to some of the biggest strategic foes the United States has, some of the long-standing enemies we have around the world, including Cuba and Iran with a much more open hand than many people I think thought was wise in the process. And now that it comes to Russia, the idea that we would try to perhaps have somebody who has a deep understanding of Russia and friendly ties with Russia as a bad thing inherently to me seems quite strange.
I mean, if we want better relations with Russia, we should probably have somebody who has an understanding of how the Kremlin works, how Putin thinks. He obviously really is the Russian government. And at a certain level, he is the one who is making all of the major decisions and so it makes sense to me that you would have somebody who also has a tremendous business background, who isn't a life-long bureaucrat. These would strike me as strengths. But then again, this is just all come out today and it's not official.
HARLOW: Yes. It's not official. If he is picked, he would be the first I believe Secretary of State to serve without any government experience. And he does have all of these long-standing relationships with world leaders. Which something clearly Trump sees as an advantage. We were looking at Kimberly Dozier pictures of Tillerson and with Putin, he was in Russia few years ago, he got an award from them basically an order of friendship from them. Where do you fall on this? Is Buck right? Is it helpful to, you know, where the United States and Russia go moving forward to have a relationship like this? Or is it too chummy?
KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, we have to remember, the U.S. has had warm relations with Russia in the past. Even the Obama administration had been able to work with them to remove weapons of mass destruction from Syria. And also behind the scenes, work with them on things like reducing the nuclear stockpiles. Now, right now it's been a more rocky relationship and Trump advisers I have spoken to have said, stay tuned, it's not going to be all friendly.
But we're trying to make overtures so that they see that we want to do business with them. While we're also increasing our military strength in the coming years, and so we'll have a two-pronged approach. The hand of friendship, but also a signal that we will firmly stand against them if they try to treat us like a pushover, as some Trump officials believe the Obama administration has been treated at the hands of Putin.
HARLOW: Buck, Lindsey Graham, Senator Lindsey Graham today tweeting the following. Quote, "I'm not challenging the outcome of the election, but I'm very concerned about Russian interference at home and throughout the world. Don't have to be Sherlock Homes to figure out what Russia is up to. They're trying to undermine democracies all over the world." Is Lindsey Graham in part at least correct?
SEXTON: I mean, it's an exaggerated. But the point about Russia interfering in the U.S. election, it seems to be true. I think people have thought this for a long time. This isn't new. What's new is that there is now a secret report that is being reported on by anonymous officials from inside the intelligence community that allegedly says that they have more solid evidence that it ties directly to the Russian government. But people have known this for quite a while now. There's been Russia interference. People have thought that this was the case with the hacked e-mails. And, yes, Russia is pursuing a very aggressive foreign policy.
[19:10:13] HARLOW: I guess what I'm asking is, should the President- Elect be more outraged by it? Right? Because he said in a statement, his team said it's time to move on.
SEXTON: Yes, no. I don't think he should be more outraged by it. Because I think he recognizes between the huge amount of attention paid to fake news recently, the amount of attention that we have been told should be put on this e-mail hacking business with Podesta, Russian interference the election. The FBI director coming out and saying that Hillary's e-mails were once again being looked at.
These are all excuses that we keep returning to or rather we're forced to return to by much of the immediate as a reason for why Hillary Clinton lost the election. Is it bad that Russia interferes in our election? Absolutely. And it seems like that's quite likely ugly a bit for a long time before this report came out. Did it change the outcome of the election? Definitely -- there's almost no way it changed the outcome of the election.
HARLOW: Let's set that aside the outcome of the election. Let's set that aside, right? Because there is no evidence that it impacted the outcome.
SEXTON: None. Absolutely no evidence.
HARLOW: But there is evidence that Vladimir Putin and Russia had its hand on the scale in an attempting to.
SEXTON: I don't know that Putin did, but there is evidence that -- there are officials that are saying there is a still secret report that they're just commenting on to the press that says that there are Russians involved with this --
HARLOW: Do you believe -- do you believe that the Republicans and Democrats should be equally outraged that a -- an aggressive foreign actor would try to meddle in American democracy?
SEXTON: Yes, I think there should be a bipartisan consensus that we don't want foreign entities trying to change the outcome or influenced the outcome of the U.S. election at all. But I also think it meets the context of, it didn't change the outcome of the election and Russia has been engaged in these kinds of activities from the old KGB (ph) days. And by the way many other countries decide they're just going to publicly endorse one candidate or another in foreign elections. And there is a Russian cable propaganda channel in this country that goes in English language to try to influence us.
HARLOW: There is. Kimberly Dozier, very quickly I go. Why should Americans care about this as we look ahead at, you know, cyber warfare?
DOZIER: Because many members of the intelligence community I have spoken to, both current and former, have said they're really concerned that the incoming president doesn't trust them. Yes, some members of the intelligence community believe that Russia tried to hack these elections, while other members did not. But the director of National Intelligence said the majority opinion was Russia was out to throw this election, and there's real concern that the President-Elect doesn't want to hear that -- Poppy.
HARLOW: Buck Sexton, Kimberly Dozier. Thank you both very much.
SEXTON: Thank you.
HARLOW: Important discussion. Up next, more on the potential political fallout, what happens when a President-elect takes aim at his own intelligence agencies? We'll debate it, straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:16:02] HARLOW: New details just into CNN about President-Elect Donald Trump's search for a Secretary of State. Sources are telling our John King that Exxon Mobil, CEO Rex Tillerson honored to become secretary of state. And that he left the meeting with Trump today believing that he will be the pick. The Trump team not confirming that and saying in an announcement won't come before next week. This comes amid reports of the CIA has concluded that Russian hackers intervened in the election with the purpose of trying to help Donald Trump win, though there is not evidence that it actually swayed the election.
And now Trump is taking on the CIA, Trump's transition team releasing a statement, which reads, "These are the same people that said Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. The election ended a long time ago and one of the biggest Electoral Colleges victories in history. It's now time to move on and Make America Great Again." The CIA is not commenting.
Let's talk about our -- all of this with our panel, Julian Zelizer is with me, historian and professor of Princeton. Andre Bauer is here, he voted for Donald Trump, he's a Republican and former lieutenant governor of South Carolina. And Lanhee Chen, former Mitt Romney public policy director. Thank you guys very much for being here.
As we just reported, also, as you know, Julian, Senator John McCain says, he has some concerns about Tillerson if he is, indeed, the nominee, because of his connections to Russia. And Russia's President Vladimir Putin. We've never seen someone serve as secretary of state with no government experience. Walk us through sort of the history of this. Of relationships that former Secretary of States have had perhaps before serving with leaders of other countries, especially ones with this tenuous relationship as United States and Russia have right now.
JULIAN ZELIZER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, look, we have had many people who start in the law and then they have different degrees of Foreign Service as they move their way up. This is a very close connection, not just interacting with a leader from another country, but obviously a leader who is now front and center in a potential scandal involving hacking this election. It reminds me a little bit in terms of the CIA part of this, of Richard Nixon, who didn't trust a lot of the bureaucracy and came into office saying he was going to be removed from them. But this is an unusual secretary of state pick that we're talking about.
HARLOW: If it is indeed the pick, we just don't know yet. But Andre, I think that Julian brings up an important point. As of, you know, as someone who voted for Donald Trump, a big supporter of his, does it concern you at all that he clearly has reservations about the voracity of the reporting from our own intelligence agencies? ANDRE BAUER, FORMER SOUTH CAROLINA LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR: It doesn't concern me, because like most Americans, there are lots of things the government has told me over the years that I have questioned. I think a lot of thinking people don't always take everything at face value. I mean, I still don't believe one bullet killed John Kennedy and shot John Conley, as well, went through the seat. The things that --
HARLOW: But aren't you on the same team? Isn't the president on the same team as his intelligence agencies? And if you have questions or concerns about the voracity of the intelligence, is it wiser to make those known in private?
BAUER: Well, his team will be in place when he takes office. And we'll have a new CIA director. And that will be his team. That will be the person he has entrusted to listen to for information and intelligence. Not the current team in place.
HARLOW: That's a lot of the staff remains the same. I mean, Lanhee, jump in here.
LANHEE CHEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, look. I think, you know, as Andre said, I do think the President-Elect is going to put in his own team. I think Congressman Pompeo is going to be a terrific director of the CIA. I do think institutionally though, is it important to address this all with some degree of reservation and sobriety. I can understand having some doubts about what the intelligence is saying. I can even understand having some doubts about what the assessment is.
I do think at the end of the day, though, it is important to treat these institutions with a little bit of greater amount of sobriety and respect, perhaps, because these people are going to be shoulder to shoulder with the President-Elect and his team as they attempt to fight this war on terror here at home and around the world.
HARLOW: Julian, if Rex Tillerson is the pick, again, he would be a first, right, in terms of not serving in government before, which Donald Trump just said in this interview with Chris Wallace was an asset, the fact that he, as Donald Trump put it, has the advantage that he knows many of the players, meaning many of the global leaders, he knows them well, he has done massive business deals with Russia. That's what Donald Trump is saying.
Should the American people be concerned about conflicts of interest when -- you know, even if he would have to obviously, you know, sell all of his shares, et cetera, and have no personal gain in any future moves of Exxon within Russia. But should that be of concern to the American people?
ZELIZER: Well, it should be of concern. There is a lot of concern about President-Elect Trump, because of his own business holdings. And simply how he thinks of conflict of interest. We assume there would be stringent divestment taking place if he is the secretary of state. We don't know that. But it's going to worry people.
HARLOW: There would be. There would have to be. ZELIZER: Right. It's going to worry people that there's not much experience in terms of diplomacy and in terms of working through diplomatic channels and obviously, it also will raise finally concerns about having someone from an energy company running state. With the deputy also let's remember might be John Bolton, someone who is extraordinarily hawkish and will cause his own set of controversies. So I think there's going to be a lot of room on Capitol Hill to worry about this, and add to that the Putin relationship which is going to be on the minds of people like Senator McCain.
HARLOW: Andre, I assume you disagree with that?
BAUER: Not totally. I do think diplomacy is something that -- you don't have to be in politics to have diplomacy. I came from a business background before I served in the legislature. And so the business dealings he's done over the year I think give him plenty of opportunity to learn diplomacy without serving in public office. I do think that he is correct in the fact that there are people that have, you know, apprehensions about someone just going in there. And that's why we have a vetting process, United States Senate will do an excellent job of vetting him. John McCain has talked about it, and I think that gives us all a little bit of more certainty after he's gone through that process.
HARLOW: Andre Bauer, Lanhee Chen, Julian Zelizer, thank you all very much.
So, ahead tonight. We do have breaking news out of Turkey and Istanbul. An attack there, Istanbul rocked by two explosions. Tonight at least 20 people have been wounded. Details after the break. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:26:26] HARLOW: We are following breaking news tonight out of Istanbul, Turkey where two large explosions shook the center of the city just a short time ago.
This is Central Istanbul after a soccer match at a huge sports stadium. Look at the moment of one of the explosions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Total shock.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Witnesses say, two separate explosions detonated outside of the stadium. A large one and then a smaller one. We know at least 20 people are reported injured. We do not yet have official confirmation on any casualties. Turkey State News Agency tonight reporting the police officers were the apparent target of the attack. Turkey's interior minister is quoted as saying a suicide bomber carried out at least one of those attacks and was behind one of the explosions. No claim yet on responsibility. Of course, this is all still developing. We'll bring you the very latest as soon as we have it. Coming up next, the news that Donald Trump saved jobs, hundreds of them at Indiana's Carrier manufacturing plant is bittersweet for some 300 workers. Just a mile down the road. The Rexnord Corporation is planning to ship all of those 300 jobs to Mexico. The union rep says, the announcement was sudden.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And they just come out and said we're closing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Up next, I will ask him if he thinks Donald Trump will save his job. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:31:02] HARLOW: The news that President-elect Donald Trump saved hundreds of jobs at a Carrier plant in Indiana was bittersweet for employees at a neighboring company. Just one mile from Carrier's Indianapolis plant, where Donald Trump cut a deal to save 800 jobs, hundreds of other workers are on the verge of losing theirs. Rexnord planning to move 300 jobs from Indiana down to Mexico and shutter the plant completely.
Donald Trump Tweeting about Rexnord last week, saying, "Rexnord of Indiana is moving to Mexico and rather viciously firing all of its 300 workers. This is happening all over our country. No more."
Our Martin Savidge spoke with Rexnord workers about their precarious situation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As they celebrated saving hundreds of jobs inside the Carrier plant, I sat at Josh Shartzer's kitchen table. He's a long-time worker at a company down the street, called Rexnord.
(on camera): You happy for them?
JOSH SHARTZER, REXNORD EMPLOYEE: Yeah, I'm totally psyched. And I'm happy for my community.
SAVIDGE (voice-over): Shartzer just wishes someone would save his job, too.
That's because Rexnord announced six weeks ago, it was leaving, relocating its Indianapolis operation to Mexico, taking 300 well- paying jobs with it.
At the local union hall, John Feltner remembers when the bad news broke.
JOHN FELTNER, MACHINIST & VICE PRESIDENT, REXNORD UNION: And he says, we have a meeting at 2:30 on the back dock. Come to find out, they actually split the plant. Half the plant went up to the front dock, the other half went to the back dock. And they just came out and said we're closing.
SAVIDGE: Rexnord has had a plant on the west side of Indianapolis since the 1950s. Don Zering (ph) worked there for 43 years.
DON ZERING (ph), REXNORD EMPLOYEE: It's not 300. It's at least three or four people per family. You're talking 12, 15, 1,800 people.
SAVIDGE: Ironically, Tim Matthews ended up at Rexnord after the last factory he was at closed.
TIM MATTHEWS, REXNORD EMPLOYEE: It's rough. So, yeah, I was actually hoping I wouldn't have to go through it again.
SAVIDGE: Carrier had planned to phase its shutdown over three years. Rexnord workers say they have six months.
Now, they watch President-elect Trump come to town and save Carrier, and they're happy.
(on camera): But isn't there a part that says, what about me?
MATTHEWS: Sure, you bet there is. There is a part that says, what about me.
SAVIDGE (voice-over): Shartzer is married with six kids. They've already started cutting back. And he thinks about all he missed working those 12-hour shifts to provide what he calls his nice, middle-class home.
SHARTZER: It's not anything to brag about but it's nice enough for us.
SAVIDGE: He started a college fund for his daughters, put some money into a retirement fund, and bought his wife their first new minivan.
SHARTZER: My first payment was due that Friday they announced.
SAVIDGE: He's glad to hear about Carrier, especially because he never thought it could happen.
(on camera): Does that give you hope?
SHARTZER: No. It's a different situation. It's --
SAVIDGE: How so?
SHARTZER: It's comparing apples to oranges.
SAVIDGE (voice-over): For starters, Rexnord wasn't a campaign issue. It's not a household name, like Carrier. And it doesn't have a parent company that does billions of dollars in defense contracts.
SHARTZER: We don't have a parent company that has 10 percent of their revenue in federal contracts. SAVIDGE (on camera): Do you think that matters?
SHARTZER: Oh, yeah, it matters. Yeah.
SAVIDGE: You think it mattered in this case?
SHARTZER: Oh, yeah, 100 percent.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARLOW: Martin Savidge, thank you very much for that reporting.
Let's talk more about this with John Feltner, the vice president of Rexnord's union, and also a machinist at the company's ball bearing factor in Indianapolis.
Thank you for joining me.
FELTNER: Thank you, Poppy.
HARLOW: You are putting two kids through college right now.