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So you want to separate business and individuals, fine, let's do it. Businesses are not hiring workers because the legislation is too expensive. We can just agree or disagree on it but it's a fact and that's what businesses say when they come on this program. So the question becomes, have you make this legislation less expensive?

GRUBER: Maria, look, once again, please don't use the word fact because you're not saying facts. You're saying anecdotes. The fact - -

BARTIROMO: I'll tell you what is a fact, Jonathan. I'll tell you what is a fact. A fact is that economic growth is two percent or lower. And the fact is one of the reason that economic growth is as low as it is, is because businesses are not hiring workers and not doing activity because of the cost of ObamaCare. That's a fact. Do you dispute -- do you dispute economic growth? Do you dispute economic growth? Ten years after the financial crisis?

GRUBER: Economic growth is the rapidest it's been in eight years. OK. Economic growth were coming out of recession and ObamaCare is irrelevant to economic growth. Please. There is no evidence at all. You are getting totally non-fact-based argument. There is no evidence at all that ObamaCare has anything to do with economic growth.

BARTIROMO: Jonathan, it's very hard -- it's very hard to believe you after what you said when this law first came out that Americans are stupid and that you needed a stupid public to get this law through. In fact, let's roll that back. Listen to this, Jonathan. Here's what you said a few years ago.


GRUBER: Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage and basically, you know, call this stupidity of the American voter or whatever. But basically that was really critical to getting things past.


BARTIROMO: So we're stupid and that's why you were able to pass this legislation through.

GRUBER: Maria, I deeply regret those comments which are taken out of comment -- out of context.

BARTIROMO: What's out of context? We just heard you say it. What is out of context about what you said?

GRUBER: What is out of context is that I was at an academic conference, conjecturing about something I shouldn't make conjecture on. I made a mistake. I shouldn't have said that. That doesn't excuse you're denying true facts. You're making up facts, Maria. OK. That doesn't use --

BARTIROMO: OK. So, what did I make up? What did I make up?

GRUBER: You made up the fact that ObamaCare has caused job loss. There is no evidence.

BARTIROMO: Yes, there is. There is 100 percent evidence. All I need are 10 CEOs to come on this show and tell me that's the reason and that becomes fact.

GRUBER: OK. Who cares if some CEO comes on the show and tells you that? Look at the data, Maria. You use the word data. Look at the data. There is not a single data point.

BARTIROMO: I don't need data when I have the CEO telling me I'm not adding workers because of the cost of ObamaCare. That is my data. I just spoke to the boss and he gave me the reason.

GRUBER: Well, Maria, that is absolutely wrong. That's not how you consider data. Data is considered by actually looking at the facts on the ground and the facts are --

BARTIROMO: The facts on the ground are the managers of businesses, the people who are actually making hiring decisions and why they are not putting new jobs in their company because it's too expensive to do so because of ObamaCare. That's data, Jonathan. For you to -- for you to say that what a CEO says is the reason that he's not hiring people is not important is ridiculous.

GRUBER: Maria, you have people on the show who are expressing a view of one company with potentially -- and we don't know what they're going to say. I made a mistake and comment, I regret. Those CEOs are coming on there making a comment. Who knows if they're making up for political reasons, why they're making it? The bottom-line, Maria, is we have data --

BARTIROMO: They're making it because they can afford the legislation. That's why they're making it.

GRUBER: Maria, we have data -- we have data collected unambiguously --

BARTIROMO: OK. What is your data? What is your data? Tell you about making this law less expensive for businesses and individuals?

GRUBER: The law -- my data tells -- you can look at it. If your listeners want to cut through the stuff you're saying, look at the data. Go to the Kaiser Family Foundation. It does an unambiguous survey every year of all employers and over the last five years of ObamaCare's past, the premium growth of employer insurance has been the slowest in measured history. That is a fact. Do not tell me --

BARTIROMO: I don't need to go to the Kaiser Foundation when I know what my friend is paying for healthcare, a thousand dollars and it was 500 or what I know of businesses paying. It was here and now it's here. All I need to know is what people are saying. I can't spend this money on activity. I can't spend this money hiring people because I'm spending this money on healthcare.

Do you think that in the first two years of President Obama's presidency, when he had both houses of congress, he should've focused instead upon healthcare on economic growth. Maybe we would be in a different place than we are today at two percent economic growth?

GRUBER: President Obama focused on economic growth. He passed the largest stimulus in our nation's history. So don't say (inaudible)

BARTIROMO: Wait a minute. Did you just say the Affordable Care Act was the largest stimulus in history?

GRUBER: No. I said, the stimulus package was the largest stimulus in history. Over the opposition of republican congress. So don't start blaming President Obama when -- first of all, once again, you're moving to economic growth. That's not what this is about. This is about a healthcare law. And once again, you can yell and bring up CEOs who want to give examples. Your listeners who really want to know the truth. I urge you to actually look at the facts.

BARTIROMO: That's why we want to have people who are actually getting affected by the law, not someone in their ivory tower telling us what this should be, but in fact, what people are seeing on the ground because they're the ones that are affected by the law, that's why that's fact, talking to CEOs and talking to the managers of businesses, Jonathan. Not somebody who's just looking at a bunch of numbers on the Kaiser website. Good to see you, sir. Thank you. Jonathan Gruber, joining us.

We'll be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BARTIROMO: Let's talk movies. One of the stars of the widely popular Netflix series "Making a Murderer" is set to be released in prison today. Cheryl Casone with that story right now. Cheryl.

CHERYL CASONE, FOX BUSINESS ANCHOR: Yes, just take a little detour for a moment here, Maria. Oh, man, Maria. All right. Great interview, by the way. All right. Brendan Dassey, remember, he confessed to helping his uncle, Steven Avery murder a woman and dispose of her body back in 2007. But after years of appeals, a federal judge overturned Dassey's conviction ruling investigators made false promises to him during his interview and his confession was coerced. Well, the Wisconsin district attorney filed an emergency motion to delay Dassey's release. Big story will keep you posted.

Let's talk food. More ice cream brands are being recalled because of the listeria scare today. Cedar Crest recalling its Pirate's Booty. The company says the cookie dough of the product comes from the factory of Aspen Hills which reported positive test result for listeria. Cedar Crest at a low, we talked about this already, Weight Watchers recalling its Smart Ones Chocolate Chip Cookie Dough Sundae and House of Flavors is pulling its Ashby's Sterling Peanut Butter Landslide. These recalls are voluntary. No has been reported, but all of these companies are just being safe.

And it's breakfast, so let's talk about cereals. Exciting news if you're eating your cereal right now, Kellogg's introducing the newest flavor, following huge demand on social media, cinnamon frosted flakes. Kellogg's says the new cereal bowl hits store shelves later this month, Maria. And those are your headlines. By the way, that was a great interview. Back to you. That was amazing.

BARTIROMO: We're going to get back to small business in a second. Dealing with big concerns why there are lessen optimistic economic outlook could hurt jobs growth. We're going to take a look at it. That's next. Back in a minute.


BARTIROMO: Bank of America, out with its latest small business owner report as confidence shows little change from the lukewarm sentiment recorded in the spring of 2016.

Joining us right now is Sharon Miller. She's the head of Small Business or Bank of America. Sharon, good to see you. Thank you so much for joining us.


BARTIROMO: The take away from small business from your standpoint. In the fall of last year national economy confidence was at 56 percent. It since plummeted to 31 percent. What's the reason behind that?

MILLER: Well, I think the confidence of our small business owners. First of all, in our study it did show that people are concerned about the economic environment, the uncertainty leading into the election certainly caused some of that. Now that we've seen the election behind us, the decision being made small business owners are now resilient and looking forward.

BARTIROMO: So what is holding them back from hiring more?

MILLER: Well, one, in our study, we showed that healthcare costs was a big concern of small business owners across the country. We are seeing that --

BARTIROMO: Thank you. I hope Jonathan Gruber is still watching the show. This is not Maria Bartiromo. This is Bank of America and their small business report.

MILLER: That's right. So we did show that healthcare cost was a huge concern among small business owners across the United States.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've seen either those stock market has really taken off since the election. Do you see a similar kind of effect with small businesses? Do you feel like they were they poised to take off, you know, with a new administration it's going to focus on regulatory making reforms, it's going to focus on healthcare reform, it's going to focus on tax reform, it's going to focus regulatory reform?

MILLER: You know, in any election environment, there is a lot of uncertainty leading up to it. And once the decision is behind us, people can move forward. So I do feel that, you know, the small business owners that I talked to across the country, I do hear that. Now that we have the decision, we can look forward regardless of who's on office because there is certainty.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ms. Sharon, I live in -- by the way, I live in Bur Oak, Wisconsin. I fly in here from there and I talk to business owners too. And it isn't just that the election is over. What I'm hearing from business owners is they like the fact that there's a business guy in the office. Do you think that's going to make a difference?

MILLER: Well, I think that in any environment that we're in, certainly it's important that people are focused on growth. And what I do find talking to small-business owners regardless of who's in office, they have a very can-do spirit. And so regardless of what's happening with the national economy or their local economies, they feel that they can move their business forward.

BARTIROMO: Let me ask you this related to something that Gruber said in various interview. Has ObamaCare, the Affordable Care Act hurt growth in this country based on your analysis in the last eight years?

MILLER: Well, healthcare cost is the number one concern that we continue to see. It was both in our spring report as well as in our fall report. So that continues to be a theme.

BARTIROMO: So it's a headwind for growth?

MILLER: It is a headwind for growth.

BARTIROMO: How do you want to see a change? Do you think if we were to see a repeal and replace and costs stock going as high as they are, this will unleash more activity from small business?

MILLER: Well, I think anytime that you can, you know, have cost out of a system, it's going to be a benefit where you can invest more in growth and certainly -- and hiring employees.

BARTIROMO: Any sense of which sectors are doing best in terms of growth, sectors of small business?

MILLER: You know, we see across the United States certainly there's an opportunity with technology. This is a technology society regardless if you are in tech or you're providing services to major companies. So that is one area that we're seeing growth certainly manufacturing service environments as well.

BARTIROMO: So, what are the other costs and the impediments to growth away from healthcare? Is it wages? What are the other issues that small business talk about which restrains them from hiring?

MILLER: So leading into the election, it was around uncertainty in the economic environment. And so this poll was taken right before the election. And so again, any time that we see the decisions being made, people can move forward and grow their business.

BARTIROMO: All right. Sharon, good to see you. Thanks so much. Sharon Miller, Bank of America.

Still to come, president-elect Donald Trump hard at work establishing his cabinet. Former Trump campaign manager and senior advisor to the president-elect, Kellyanne Conway will join us live next with what we can expect from the Trump administration. Back in a moment.


BARTIROMO: Good Tuesday morning, everybody. Welcome back. I'm Maria Bartiromo and it is Tuesday, November 15th. Your top stories 8:00 A.M. on the east coast.


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(Show: MORNINGS WITH MARIA) (Date: November 15, 2016) (Time: 06:00:00) (Tran: 111501cb.231) (Type: SHOW) (Head: Obama's Final Foreign Trip; Trump's Cabinet Takes Shape; Wildfires Spreading; Amazon Gifts Eco-Friendly; Future Of The GOP; DNC Chair Run Underway; Fake News Crackdown; State Of The Consumer; Retail Earnings In Focus) (Sect: News; Domestic)

(Byline: Maria Bartiromo, Dagen McDowell, Cheryl Casone, Jared Max, John Bolton )

(Guest: Brian Brenberg, Rachel Campos-Duffy, Betsy McCaughey, Chuck Rocha)

(High: President-elect Donald Trump works to share his administration and shape it. Vice President-elect Mike Pence heads to New York today to work with the transition team on cabinet decision.)

(Spec: Stock Markets; Politics; Government; Policies; Elections; Government; Asia; Business; Economy; Internet; Telecommunications)

MARIA BARTIROMO, FBN ANCHOR: Hi everybody. Thank you for being with us. Happy Tuesday. It's Tuesday, November 15th. Top stories at 6:00 a.m. on the East coast.

President Obama taking his message overseas, taking a last foreign trip, landing in Greece. He will reassure foreign allies and tell all Americans that President-Elect Trump wants to serve everyone.


BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I've been encouraged on his statements on election night about the need for unity and his interest in being the president for all people and that how he staffs the first steps he takes, the first impressions he makes and reset that can happen after election all those things are important and should be thought about. And I think it's important to give him the room and space to do that. It takes time to put that together.


BARTIROMO: This coming as President-elect Donald Trump works to share his administration and shape it. Vice President-elect Mike Pence heads to New York today to work with the transition team on cabinet decision. Concern of the effects of safe news on the election forcing Google and Facebook to take action with the company say they are doing now to combat mounting criticism. And wild fires are continuing to spread across to south this morning causing millions of dollars in damage. We've got the very latest coming up.

Apple takes another step into the wearable market the technology giant reportedly working on smart glasses to take on giant like Facebook and Samsung in the augmented reality space. Market this morning look like this we are continuing to see this record on Dow Industrials beginning at another all-time high after record closed yesterday. We are looking at fraction moves upside, this morning Dow Industrials expected to be up another 15 point. Investors eyeing the retail sector. Several companies set to report earnings today, retail sales are also out this morning at 8:30 am Eastern.

That typically could be a market mover. So, well get those numbers as soon as they hit the take. Let's take European market this morning. In the Eurozone things look like this mostly higher. The FTSE 100 up about almost one percent, 58 point higher (INAUDIBLE) and Paris up to 35 percent and that index negative right now fractionally, so. In Asia overnight, market finished (INAUDIBLE) the Hang Seng in Hong Kong best performer there up one half of one percent. Amazon justified wrapping paper, the retail giant planning to package holiday gifts in reusable bags.

I'll tell you that, all those stories coming up this morning and joining me talk about it right now, Fox Business Network, Dagen McDowell, The King's College Professor of Business and Economics Brian Brenberg and Fox News Contributor Rachel Campos-Duffy. Good to see you.


BARTIROMO: Thank you so much for joining us, good morning.



BARTIROMO: Great to see you.

MCDOWELL: So much to talk about. The election is over and the news keep coming.

BARTIROMO: And the administration is being shaped right now. We have a lot to talk about this morning, I tell you that. Stay with us. Former Trump Campaign Manager and Senior Adviser to President-elect Trump, Kellyanne Conway is joining us this morning. Home Depot co-founder Ken Langone is here. Former FDIC Chairman Sheila Bair will join us, and Obamacare architect and MIT Economist and Professor Jonathan Gruber is here. Former Commander of the Middle East during the Iraq War General Anthony Zinni also. Big show ahead. Stay with us this morning.

President Obama kicks off his final (INAUDIBLE) foreign tour as sitting president today. This morning he arrived in Athens, Greece. He will meet with the Greek Prime Minister. Obama will then make stops in Berlin, Germany and Lima, Peru before returning back to Washington. Ahead of his departure, the president held his first news conference since Donald Trump was elected.


OBAMA: I think that he is obviously gregarious person and somebody who, I think, likes to mix it up and to have a vigorous debate. I think that he is coming to this office with fewer set harden pass policy prescriptions than a lot of other presidents might be arriving with. I don't think he is ideological. I think ultimately he's pragmatic in that way.


BARTIROMO: Joining us right now was former New York Lieutenant Governor Betsy McCaughey and Chuck Rocha, Democratic strategist and president of Solidarity Strategies. Good to see you both.


BARTIROMO: Thank you so much for joining us.


BARTIROMO: Betsy, let me give -- congratulations to you (INAUDIBLE)

MCCAUGHEY: Thank you.

BARTIROMO: Betsy, what do you make of Obama's language addressing Trump. It's interesting, he's taking a real steady stand on this.

MCCAUGHEY: It is and it's probably a good thing that he's taking this tour because it removes him from the American stage giving the President-elect a little more room. On the other hand, it probably would have been better if he just played golf because the fact is this election was a repudiation of President Obama's Foreign Policy. His Paris climate accord, his Iran deal, the on-going slaughter in the Middle East. So, for him to meet with foreign leaders now, you wonder what can possibly be accomplished.

BARTIROMO: Yes. Well, you know, he's saying (INAUDIBLE) is that he's basically talking about the president-elect and what he can tell other leaders in terms of what to expect, what do you think he's going to be saying to leaders abroad?

ROCHA: Well, the first thing I think he's going to be saying is, "I've talked to Donald Trump and he isn't as crazy as you all think he is. He's ready to come and he's trying to do good things." And then he's going to be your president whether you like it or not, whether you voted for him or you didn't. I did not vote for Donald Trump, but guess what, Donald Trump is going to be my president and much like the president, I'm going to give him a shot and I think that he's not wanting to come in and destroy America. I think that he's got a vision, I think we can debate policy initiatives and I want to hold him accountable on the things I will disagree, but he's the president of the United States.

He will be sworn in up, he'll put his hand on the bible and whether I like him or I don't like him he will be my president. I think more people need to wake up to that and then let's (INAUDIBLE) all elected officials accountable.

BARTIROMO: Yes, that's the tone of President Obama.

MCDOWELL: Good for you.

BARTIROMO: That's the tone of President Obama.

MCDOWELL: Good for you.

BARTIROMO: Isn't it, Dagen?

MCDOWELL: It is. And it's -- it goes back to how President Bush and the First Lady treated President Obama and his wife during the transition and frankly over the last eight years, I've said this over and over again, the Bush's set an example in terms of grace, and class and courtesy to the Obama's and he understand, President Obama understands the importance of a handover. And he -- the campaign is over, he said that. And he was -- he was as kind in word as he could be to President -- to President-elect Trump.

But to -- Chuck, to your point, what in the heck do you think Donald Trump can do, you're a Bernie Sanders supporter. You were as left -- what could Donald Trump do as president that would -- that would make you happy?

ROCHA: Well, it's very interesting that you say that it's a great question, because what I saw when I was working for a year for Bernie Sanders was, crowds of people who came together who were frustrated, who were frustrated that their voice wasn't being heard by their government, by their elected officials. And they kind of felt left out. Well, guess what? Donald Trump appealed to those same types of people and the American people for the most part have seen themselves be left behind by an economic recovery that had -- went on for good people, for rich people, but regular folks have been left behind.

So, there is a commonality of struggle there where people want to voice again in their government, to stand up for all Americans.

MCCAUGHEY: And that's exactly why Donald Trump won the election because he was able to bring in those Middle-America voters who had been forgotten by Washington.

BARTIROMO: Yes. And Rachel even with some pushback from the GOP and the establishment. Let's talk about Paul Ryan for a second. He's expected to retain his title as the House Speaker, correct?

DUFF: I mean, there's no other member of Congress that has the support of the gravitas of Paul Ryan.

BARTIROMO: really?

DUFF: There's no -- first of all, there's no other replacement for him and secondly, they like him.

BARTIROMO: Yes. Well, the closed door vote reportedly taking place today securing Ryan for a second term, but on the other side of the aisle, Representative Keith Ellison formerly announce his run for DNC Chair, what do you all think in about that in terms of -- in terms of (INAUDIBLE)

MCCAUGHEY: This shows that the democrats lost -- learned nothing from last week's route. The fact as Keith Ellison is extremely radical. He's known to have had alliances intellectually with Louis Farrakhan early in his life. He's one of two Muslims in Congress, nothing wrong with being a Muslim but the fact is he is pulling the Democratic Party far left and this meeting that's occurring with George Soros and democratic leaders signals that these people want to pull the party as far left as possible rather than reaching out to the mainstream voters --

MCDOWELL: But that raises -- yes.

MCCAUGHEY: -- who repudiated them.

MCDOWELL: But that raises --


MCDOWELL: -- the issue of -- is Hillary Clinton's loss is it a rejection? Chuck can answer this better than I can. Is it a rejection of the Clintons, is it a rejection of her and all the cronies who were surrounded by -- who surrounded them, who did sleazy things to keep her in power and give her the nomination or is it a rejection of the more left idealogy of the last day (INAUDIBLE)

MCCAUGHEY: I think it's a rejection of globalism.


MCCAUGHEY: Of the way the democrats turn patriotism into xenophobia.


MCCAUGHEY: You -- there was something wrong with you if you wanted to put America first. And most Americans find that repulsive.

BARTIROMO: What about that Chuck, do you think the election was more about a repudiation against the extreme less and the policy has Dagen put it or do you think it was just really Clinton?

ROCHA: I think that it's a combination of both. I joined the Democratic Party because I lost my job and the fact that moved to (INAUDIBLE) and I was tired of old-rich white men trying to tell working class folks how to act and how to live. Well, guess who had that message this year and the reason why he won. The Democratic Party needs to get back to the core, we need to drain our swamps ourselves of our -- of our political insiders who have been running the party for over 15, 20 years. We've lost 11 Senate seats, 60 Congressional seats and 14 Governors races in the last nine years.

We need to change everything and put a new face and new vision forward for the American people. And bring our voters back to us.

MCCAUGHEY: I really like you, chuck. (LAUGHTER)

DUFF: That's why you put repudiation of Barack Obama. I mean, he did say my legacy is on the line and we know these policies don't work. We know that on the Fox Business Channel that those -- that those policies didn't work economically.