with-CHRIS-HAY-01
Ifill, Tim Mak>
rally in Anaheim, California, where numerous clashes broke out between
protesters and Trump supporters. Donald Trump is now facing a coordinated,
sustained, full spectrum assault on a single issue, his 2006 response in an
audio book for Trump University to a question about the possibility of a
real estate crash. The State Department inspector general published their
long awaited report on Hillary Clinton`s use of a private e-mail server
while she was secretary of state, and the report published this morning
concludes that Clinton`s use of a private e-mail account was against State
Department policy, saying she did not ask for permission from the State
Department`s legal offices to use that private e-mail account. Needs of
veterans examined. Tesla autopilot explored. Look at some of Trump`s
businesses.>
Hillary Clinton; State Department; Policies; Veterans; War; Books;
Military; Auto Industry; Business; Finance>
In his new book, journalist Sebastian Junger describes one of those needs the closeness that is common to military life and how we as a culture have in the grand scheme of things only very recently moved away from the solidarity that comes from tribal kinship.
Junger chronicles the way that that intense and intensely human closeness experienced on the battlefield vanishes once soldiers return to an alienating and increasingly acrimonious modern society, a jarring transition that can produce PTSD like symptoms and depression even for those who didn`t suffer severe trauma in war.
I recently got a chance to talk to Junger about his book.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HAYES: Here`s what I`ve really liked about the book so far is that there is a kind of trite cliche that I think in this era of unending 15 years of war that we have about veterans and soldiers who return, which is like, oh, they`re sort -- they come back and they`re forgotten and they`re sort of tragic cases. And you`re getting at something really profound about what the experience of what they do in war is and how that differs from coming back.
What is that?
SEBASTIAN JUNGER, AUTHOR: War provides the opportunity for unbelievable closeness and intimacy with the men you`re fighting with. The unit I was with it was all men, so I`ll just say men. It`s easier. But in mixed sex units the same thing. Incredible intimacy and you`re relying on these people for your life. Incredible bond.
And actually, if you`re in a platoon of 30 or 40 people living communally like that, you`re reproducing our evolutionary past pretty closely.
And then you come back -- so you lose that bond. You lose your little tribe, right, which we`re wired -- we`re wired for that.
HAYES: Yeah, you make the case -- I mean, hundreds of thousands of years ago of development in which that`s the way we lived. We`ve lived in the world of Home Depots and cars for a tiny little smidge.
JUNGER: That`s right. So, you know, you`re sleeping in a group, eating in a group, or missions, et cetera. So, then you come back to modern society and if you come back to a tribal society you`re pretty OK, right, you`re going from one group to another group. It`s all the same group.
You come back to a modern society and you`re coming back to a society that because of it`s affluence has some of the highest rates of suicide and depression and child abuse and all of these other ills ever recorded.
You would think that with affluence comes an improvement in mental health, it`s actually the other way around. Because many mental health issues are correlated with frankly loneliness.
Loneliness is new in the human story, right. If you live in a group of 30 or 40 people in the Kalahari Desert, you`re never lonely. Whatever the other stresses are, you`re never lonely.
Well, these people come back and they`ve lost their little tribe and they`re in this alienating modern society that`s hard on everybody and what they`re experiencing -- I mean, about 10 percent of the military experiences combat so the other 90 percent really were not traumatized. What they are having is a disorder of transition. Even Peace Corps volunteers when they come back to the United States, many of them have quite a high rate of depression when they come home.
And I think a lot of that -- they call it PTSD because that`s the word we all have, but I think for a lot of them that weren`t in combat what they`re experiencing is that disorder of transition.
HAYES: I was reading this and I had a conversation once with a veteran who had done two tours in Afghanistan and literally told me about coming back and working at a job in Home Deport and just having a moment where he just looked around and was like literally is this all? Is this it? Is this -- all right. I`m going go down that aisle -- you know, and there`s this sense of meaning I think is part of what this book sort of is getting at.
Is there a way -- we`re not going to reproduce a tribal society, right. And also, you know, war is not a good thing in the general sense of -- it`s massively destructive and violent. Like, what is -- is there a capturable part of what`s lost here to salvage in our sort of modern society?
JUNGER: Sort of yes and no. I think we do a lot of things that are actively destructive to our sense of unity. We`re not going to go back to a tribal society. If you wanted to try that you would have to ban the car. I think national service -- Israel has a rate of PTSD of 1 percent.
Psychologist in Israel attribute that to national service. Everyone serves in the military, not necessarily combat, but they`re all in the military. that experience with group purpose is enormously beneficial psychologically. I think it would help this country.
HAYES: Yeah, I mean, -- this is a longer conversation. When I hear that I think, well, right it`s a society that`s sort of on permanant war footing. And all of the things that we talk about when we talk about the negative aspects of tribalism it`s like how do you detach the one from the other.
JUNGER: OK, but what about -- every nation needs an army. What about national service with a military option?
HAYES: And there`s many countries that have that.
JUNGER: Exactly.
And I think it`s quite good. I think that would help us a lot. But more urgently the contempt that we`ve seen in the recent political season of political leaders and media leaders speaking with incredible derision and lack of respect and contempt for other -- for their fellow citizens, for the president, for the congress, for parts of the American demographic, you don`t -- that kind of tone is reserved for how you speak with about the enemy.
You don`t use that tone when you`re talking about people in your own camp that you may have to rely on.
And I think one thing that happens to soldiers is they fight for this country and they come back and they realized that they fought for a country that`s fighting with itself. Imagine how psychologically destructive that is.
HAYES: The book is called "Tribe: On Homecoming and Belonging" by Sebastian Junger. Thank you very much for coming. Appreciate it.
JUNGER: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HAYES: Still to come, a major victory for voting rights in a very key swing state and what it could mean for the general election. That`s ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HAYES: By just about any measure the Tesla Model S is a pretty incredible piece of American ingenuity. The coolest feature may be the software that Tesla calls auto pilot. Using cameras and sensors, the care can drive itself. It auto steers, can change lanes, adjust speed in response to traffic and even park itself.
The technology has made for some pretty cool videos.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Tesla is a pro at staying in one lane, but we wanted to find out if it could change lanes automatically too.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m going to use my blinker to get over. Hopefully it will be aware of that.
Oh, there it goes and it did it and it`s aware of the car in front of us and it slowed down. That was insane.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was close.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That wasn`t close. That was awesome.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was close.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Although, the Tesla S is fully capable of automatically navigating most highway situations allowing you to take your hands off the wheel and foot off the pedals. The director of Tesla`s auto-pilot program stresses that the software, quote, should be used with a driver fully engaged, fully in the loop, using their cognitive abilities as they normally would.
Tesla`s CEO and founder Elon Musk elaborated further.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELON MUSK, CEO, TESLA: We`re not asserting that the car is capable of driving in the absence of driver oversight. That will be the case at some point in the future. Like maybe five or six years from now I think we`ll be able to achieve true autonomous driving where you can literally get in the car, go to sleep and wake up at your destination.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Imagine that, in the future you will be able to just go to sleep behind the wheel of your car. But not now, right now it`s important to stay fully engaged while you`re driving. Apparently nobody told that to this guy. That video in 60 seconds.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HAYES: So, the Tesla S has this autopilot feature that allows you to feel like you`re not really driving. Your hands don`t have to be the on wheel, your feet don`t have to be the on the pedals, it`s truly, stunningly advanced technology that puts Ttesla vehicles at level two on the autonomous vehicle spectrum as specified by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
But it is not, I repeat, not a totally autonomous self driving car, that would require a car that can be driven without human intervention at any point. That`s what the national Highway Traffic Safety Administration calls level four.
This guy is ready for level four. Behold, the future of autonomous commuting.
This video first popped up on the website Reddit yesterday and has slowly been making the rounds on the internet. It appears this man is sound asleep at the wheel of his Tesla as it autopilots the rush hour traffic. Elon Musk was asked to comment on the video and he does not approve, quote, "autopilot is by far the most advanced such system on the road, but it does not turn a Tesla into an autonomous vehicle and does not allow the driver to abdicate responsibility."
But I don`t know, the thing seemed to work pretty well for this guy and as far as we know he got safely to his destination. Sweet dreams level four dude. Sweet dreams.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HAYES: A federal judge in Ohio has struck down an Ohio law that curtails early voting saying it is a violation of the Voting Rights Act and the constitution. U.S. district judge Michael H. Watson, an appointee of President George W. Bush wrote in his opinion it is reasonable to conclude that the reduction in overall to vote will burden the right to vote for African-Americans who use early in-person voting significantly more than other voters.
This case is being appealed to the sixth circuit U.S. court of appeals and from there it may reach the Supreme Court that is, let`s remember, currently only eight justices with one sitting there not getting a hearing as nominated by President Obama. It`s widely expected to split on the issue 4-4.
Joining me now Sherilynn Ifill, president and director counsel NAACP legal defense education fund, which has argued in defense of an NAACP challenge of a Texas voter ID laws. What`s the significance of this ruling.
SHERRILYN IFILL, DIRECTOR COUNSEL NAACP LEGAL DEFENSE EDUCATION FUND: Well, it`s important. I mean, what the judge found is that this particular provision in Ohio, golden week, it`s a week in which voters in Ohio can both do early voting and they can register and vote at the same time.
And what the evidence showed was that African-Americans were five times more likely to use Golden Week than white voters. In fact, 80,000 voters voted during that week in the 2012 election.
And so the judge`s decision is a powerful one, an important one. Of course it will be appealed. This is a big week for voting challenges as you noted. We were in New Orleans yesterday in the fifth circuit court of appeals arguing a challenge, an appeal to our Texas voter ID challenge. I didn`t actually argue the case, another lawyer in our office did, Jennai Nelson.
And she essentially laid out what the district court found which is that the Texas voter ID law was created for the purpose of discriminating against African-Americans and Latino voters.
HAYES: So, you`ve got the Texas ID law, you`ve got this Ohio law. This will get challenged. All this happening without the protection of a big part of the Voting Rights Act.
IFILL: This is what the Shelby case brought. You have got cases out of Wisconsin, North Carolina that are both on appeal. You have Virginia. All of these new voting laws, that`s new restrictions on voting all came about after the 2013 decision in the Shelby County case, and so this is literally the landscape that was created by the Supreme Court`s decision.
HAYES: And are we running out of runway to get all this settled before -- I mean, that`s my concern, like, whatever the rulings are you want to know what the law is before election day.
IFILL: Absolutely.
And we`ve already had election day, let`s be honest. We`ve had the primary election, right, in which people were disenfranchised.
But now it`s November and the Supreme Court actually in the Texas case said that they expect the court of appeals to issue a decision by July 20th so that there will be enough time, if the case needs to go to the Supreme Court for it to be decided before the November elections.
It`s quite a landscape.
That could really set up a tremendously intense high stakes battle in that Supreme Court in the fall.
IFILL: It`s a huge high stakes battle. I think most people are thinking about it as a high stakes battle in the presidential election, but there are DAs and judges and town council.
HAYES: All the way down.
IFILL: All the way down the ballot.
HAYES: All right, Sherilynn Ifill, always a pleasure to have you here. Thank you very much.
Up next, the pitch Donald Trump made to struggling Americans during the financial crisis saying they could opt out of the recession. That story and why it involves urine samples after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HAYES: Donald Trump is under fire from Democrats for having been, in his words, excited for potential housing crash, because of a given opportunity to, quote, go in and buy like crazy.
Now that`s evidence he did profit from the crisis and the ensuing recession not just necessarily in real estate. The Daily Beast reports today on the vitamin selling venture launched in 2009 by a company called The Trump Network. It was a multi-level marketing scheme along the lines of Amway or Mary Kay. And it appears to have specifically targeted vulnerable people who had been hurt badly by the crisis.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The economic meltdown, greed, and ineptitude in the financial industry have sabotaged the dreams of millions of people. Americans need a new plan. They need a new dream. The Trump Network wants to give millions of people renewed hope and with an exciting plan to opt out of the recession.
Let`s get out of this recession right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: The scheme pedeled a number of diet products and sham nutritional supplements, including a supposedly customized vitamin regime requiring users to send in a urine sample packed inside a very classy special Trump branded box.
According to a Harvard doctor and supplement expert interviewed by the Daily Beast, the process is, quote, a scam. It`s a bogus program to make profit for the people who are selling it. It`s fantasy.
According to Donald Trump, however, addressing a glitzy launch event in 2009 the The Trump Network was a sure thing investment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: When I did The Apprentice it was a long shot. This is not a long shot,t his is going to be something that`s really amazing.
I know other marketing companies and there`s nothing like I`ve seen like what we`re witnessing. This is an amazing sort of a phenomena.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Trump didn`t actually own The Trump Network. As with many of his ventures, he merely licensed his brand to the business reportedly earning a million dollars.
But according to CBS News he spent two years traveling the country to promote The Trump Network and as a promotional video made clear his buy in was a key selling point along with providing a boost out of the recession.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have chills. I can`t believe we are The Trump Network.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everyone recognizes and trusts that Trump brand name.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a recession proof business.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A recession proof income that can pay them some very significant income month after month.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re going to make the kind of money CEOs make.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When we talk business, Trump means business.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You cannot be in any other network marketing company besides Donald Trump, because who can compete with him?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t think anybody can.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: The Washington Post reports Trump`s licensing deal with the company expired in 2011. The Trump Network`s three owners eventually filed for bankruptcy and in early 2012 the business was sold to another company.
Eileen Kelly (ph), a retired college professor interviewed by CBS News said she and her husband lost $10,000 in the scheme.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I hate to see people taken in like that, like we were. I mean, we`re educated people. It`s almost embarrassing.
I don`t believe for a moment that he`s going to change things. We just went through it with him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Eileen Kelly (ph) told CBS she had to delay her retirement to pay off her Trump Network debt.
I`m joined now by Tim Mak, senior correspondent for The Daily Beast. Tim, how did this come about? It seems so random. I can`t even watch -- going through the clips today at the office I just couldn`t even believe this thing happened.
TIM MAK, THE DAILY BEAST: I think that during the time around the recession Donald Trump was looking for a multi-level marketing opportunity to get into. And he sure found one. He found this organization called The Trump Network and for $140 you could send in your urine and get a tailored version of vitamins, none of which was proven by science, by the way, they would be delivered to you and you would pay $70 a month, every month, to increase your health.
But the difference between something like this and a Trump steak or a Trump wine is this actually would have not only an effect on your income and purchasing these vitamins, but it also could have an effect on your health. The thing is that these supplements have not been tested, they have not been shown to work and they have not been shown to be safe. That`s the real problem here here.
The doctors that we talked to who were involved with The Trump Network say that Donald Trump was never really interested in the science or whether it was actually safe.
HAYES: Yeah, I mean, these guys pitched this to Trump, right, they showed him their ideas. It was both the vitamins and then the marketing, right, like you could be a person that sold these vitamins to other people. That would be part of the way the, you know, you would make this income.
Let me read the statement from the Trump organization, "yet another inaccurate, misleading story from The Daily Beast. To be clear, Mr. Trump`s role in The Trump Network was limited to licensing his brand and providing motivational speeches to its members. Mr. Trump was never an owner of The Trump Network," although we made clear that`s true. "It should come as no surprise The Daily Beast never bothered to contact the former owners The Trump Network," or anyone from the Trump organization to learn the facts presumably because it would have gotten in the way of the story."
Is that true?
MAK: No. We gave the Trump campaign five days to respond to the story. They didn`t respond to the story. Donald Trump just yesterday cited a Daily Beast story, so apparently he likes our investigations, he just doesn`t like it when we investigate him.
Really, the fact of the matter is that he went into this and we talked to plenty of doctors who were involved in this project and he wasn`t interested in the science behind it. He was interested in the money behind it, but he was not interested in whether or not it would effect the health of these people who were purchasing the products.
HAYES: One things that struck me -- people know that a huge part of what - - I mean, we don`t know how much money he makes and what his finances look like because we haven`t seen his tax returns. But clearly one thing that he does that lucrative is rent out his name, essentially. I mean, there`s buildings all over the world that have the Trump name. I mean, basically it`s just a licensing deal.
It was striking to me, though, that he was spend a considerable amount of time actually like out there marketing for this company.
MAK: Yeah, he spent a lot of effort, clearly people thought that he was invested in this company. He said he was involved with the company. So people when they were making these health decisions, when they were making these personal decisions that could effect their entire life, not just their pocket book but their health, they were relying on Trump being behind it.
And the fact is he was not at all inquisitive about what the vitamins actually did, whether it was healthy, whether it was helpful and that`s the real story here.
HAYES: I mean, this -- for lack of a better term this looks like basically snake oil, right?
MAK: Yeah. It`s the entire thing has been based in pseudo science. So, we talked to one of the top doctors of this particular vitamin product and he gave us a 12 page paper. We sent it to a Harvard doctor who specializes in supplements. He looked at the whole thing and he said this was a ridiculous concept. Firstly, they never tested this on humans. They had never investigated the claims of the science.
HAYES: Although, everyone got to keep their personalized branded Trump urine sample collection containers.
Tim Mak, thank you very much.
That is All In for this evening. The Rachel Maddow show starts right now.
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