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Trump Says GOP Delegate Selection Is Crooked; The Caustic Democratic Race for New York; Interview With Radio Talk Show Host Laura Ingraham;

DOBBS-TONIGHT-01

TONIGHT-01

Race for New York; Interview With Radio Talk Show Host Laura Ingraham;

What are Paul Ryan's Motives; Donald Trump Rallying in Albany, New York;

Are The Elites Hearing the People? - Part 2>

Cruz; Military; Islamic State>

Trump is, obviously, more than a little exercised about getting, well, as he would - having those delegates stolen from him despite everything, not knowing how the Party was going to work it out in Colorado.

STEPHEN MILLER, SENIOR POLICY ADVISOR, TOP AID TO SENATOR JEFF SESSIONS: Well, first of all, great to be here, but I think what happened in Colorado raises important questions that we should be discussing and that we need to be discussing.

How is possible that in the year 1016, that a soldier in Colorado can fight a war to Iraqis a vote, but that same soldier can't vote in their own presidential primary contest? That's a pretty remarkable thing.

DOBBS: And we're talking about as many as a million people in Colorado, denied, disenfranchised, let's say it just like it is ...

MILLER: ... Right.

DOBBS: And what I love, too, about this Stephen, is we're hearing - and we're going to talk later with the representative from the RNC, we're hearing all this talk about that's the way the system has been for 100 years, that it's arcane, yes, and you have to a level of sophistication. It's pure (INAUDIBLE) nonsense.

There's nothing complicated about it. It's a rigged deal.

MILLER: The weakest form of argument is always, "Well, that's just the way things are."

DOBBS: Yes.

MILLER: Is there a worse argument on anything in the world, "Well, that's just the way things are."

Let me try and tie this to an issue for a second. So Mr. Trump has been up there in New York. He's done a few campaign rallies. Every campaign rally he's done so far; he's read off the statistics of manufacturing job losses in New York.

So, for instance, he was in Rochester the other day, they've lost half - half - of their manufacturing jobs since 1997. He's challenging 40 years of failed trade orthodoxy from the donor class in Washington D.C.

So, of course, that same donor class is going to have a vested interest in trying to use every single step possible along the way, to try and keep him from getting the nomination.

DOBBS: And just to take that to another level in terms of medial, to remind our audience, the national liberal media, you would think, would be focusing on those elements that Stephen Miller has just pointed out. Trade policy, lost jobs, manufacturing, but no, because this candidate, Trump, represents the greatest disruption to the orthodoxy, that is, corporate America, the Chamber of Commerce mentality ...

MILLER: ... right.

DOBBS: ... that has driven the exportation of American jobs, the off- shoring of production, the outsourcing of jobs, and the reason, in large measure, that our middle class has shrunk over the course of the last 40 years. It is a powerful message and one that Trump brought to the American people first.

MILLER: We are witnessing before our very eyes, a peaceful voter revolution against Washington policies like the off-shoring of American jobs and the exportation of foreign countries unemployment to our shores.

So you have groups like the Club for Growth, great example, Club for Growth, in the never (ph) Trump crowd. Club for Growth has been the group trying to block courtesy reform in Congress for years now, and so they, again, have an interest in trying to keep Trump out of the White House.

But you have this popular, peaceful voter revolution of people saying, "We're going to retake control of our destiny, and that's what's so horrifying about the idea that you could just cancel an election and say, Uh-oh, the voters are getting mad, better cancel the election."

DOBBS: And that seems to be what they're doing. They are - nullification, the orthodoxy of the establishment is, they are the 21st century nullifiers, and make no mistake that they are absolutely insistent upon preserving the status quo and the middle class be damned.

It's important that Trump and any who would challenge this orthodoxy prevail. Do you think they will?

MILLER: Well, in fact, I actually think that the result of this drastic over-reach in Colorado -- I mean - what else can you call it. A decision was made when Trump's popularity was soaring, to cancel the election in Colorado.

For every over-reach, there is a reaction. When Obama issued his executive amnesty, for instance, or was preparing to issue it, I should say, get the timeline right, it ended costing the Democrats control of the Senate.

I believe the over-reach in Colorado is going to lead to a dramatic voter backlash that's going Trump's numbers higher in New York, in Pennsylvania, in New Jersey, in Connecticut, Delaware, Maryland, California and so forth.

And so I actually think that's going to help propel us to the 1237, because voters, when they're confronted with the reality that there is a real effort to steal the nomination, they're going to say, "We are going to do everything we can - to the (inaudible) that we have the power - to stop that from happening and get Trump to 1237."

DOBBS: And what you're saying is critically important because they still do have the power, that is, the voters of this country despite all of the machinations of the establishment, the likely suspects as you enumerated them, the Club for Growth, which, by the way, is one of the smallest clubs in all the world, but well-funded if not highly equipped ...

MILLER: ... a very small exclusive club.

DOBBS: Stephen Miller, great to have you with us. We appreciate it.

MILLER: Thank you.

DOBBS: We want to share with you now a video of a French athlete giving fans a brand new perspective and here we go.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOBBS: Armed with a GoPro, that's right, GoPro, this daredevil performing a death-defying run downhill. The 22-year-old flying off jumps, zipping through, watch this, here come the trees and here we go. This is, at the least, exciting.

Part of GoPro's Line of Winter contest. The stunt earned the daredevil the $20,000 grand prize and you see why, no problem there. Oh. I think there are lots of problems here. And $20,000 seems like a cheap price for this risk.

Up next, Ted Cruz slamming Trump for whining about Colorado. We'll take up the fight for delegates here next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Well, joining us now, Lindsay Walters, a Republican National Committee, National Spokeswoman. Lee Carter, Communications Strategist with Maslansky and Partners, good to have you both here.

Let me start, Lee, with you. The reaction of what has happened in Colorado, the controversy there. Cruz says that Trump is whining. Trump says that folks are stealing.

LEE CARTER, COMMUNICATIONS STRATEGIST WITH MESLANSKY AND PARTNERS: I think that it's a - you know -- I think he's making valid points right now. I think people are really fed up with the establishment.

And I think it's a really smart strategy for Donald Trump, right now, to be going back on message and getting right back to the points that he's been making along, that he is the anti-establishment candidate, that he's going to fight to make sense of this - whatever people are calling it - corrupt political system.

And we know that -- there's something like 83 percent of Americans right now feel like the political system needs fixing, and he's going to say, "This is another example of it, and we got to get it fixed."

DOBBS: By the way, he said it about four or five times, as you're seeing pictures of him, there live. Lindsay, how do you react, the RNC to the statements that the system is rigged, that it's time for a better answer from the RNC from Republican Party than, well, we've done it that way for 100 years. People are getting really upset about it.

LINDSAY WALTERS, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE, NATIONAL SPOKEWOMAN: There's been a process that's been in place, and Colorado, for example, they set their process last August, and all of the individual states had to present what their plans were going to be, and then they were (inaudible) to both the candidates and the campaign.

And so everyone has been well aware of what the rules were going to be in these individual states. And, again, Colorado determined this last August. This isn't something that happened in the last month. This happened last year.

DOBBS: But why did it happen in August, because it looks as if it happened specifically to snuff out the Trump, if you will, campaign. And, by the way, it's snuffed out a million voters in the state of Colorado. Sure, you're a young person, a millennial, isn't there some force within the Republican Party that says, you know, we've got to get more people engaged, we've got to bring those million people in Colorado into the system, not push them out.

Doesn't that disturb you personally?

WALTERS: Colorado decided that this was the process that worked for their state, and it was outlined and it was fair from the beginning. And that's exactly what they've stuck to, so they're following their rules and to get to ...

DOBBS: I know, but how about young people like yourself?

WALTERS: ... there's a long process that goes into the ...

DOBBS: ... people that you're freezing out.

WALTERS: ... once the delegate pool is determined ...

DOBBS: ... Lindsay, let's stop please. Lindsay, I'd like to ask a question here. How can the Republican Party endorse the disenfranchisement of a million people because that's what happened? And you can keep repeating that that's the process they put in place, but the RNC has a responsibility to reach out and to bring more people into the tent, not push a million away at a time.

WALTERS: The RNC is here to facilitate and ensure that there's open, fair and transparent process. And exactly what it did. These rules by the Colorado party were laid out last year ...

DOBBS: Is it wise?

WALTERS: And too, let's look at this, this wasn't - doesn't happen overnight. This process takes a while and you have ...

DOBBS: Lee, jump in here, your thoughts about what's happening. Lindsay's going to keep repeating talking points - Lindsay, please. I mean, we've heard you say the same thing three times.

CARTER: Yes, and look, I understand that this has been in place since August, but in some ways it doesn't even matter. I think the bottom line is this, I think that Americans are saying that they're fed up with the system as it is.

And you see this on the right, and you see on the left, I mean, people that are following Bernie Sanders are saying the same thing. They've got the super delegates on the left, and people are saying, this just doesn't seem fair. We've 600 (ph) already in the bag for Hillary Clinton. The peoples' voices aren't being heard.

And I think people are sick and tired of it, and they want to see a new day and a different day in Washington.

DOBBS: Lee Carter, Lindsay Walters, thank you both for being here. Appreciate it.

Up next, Paul Ryan says he's conservative, but the only thing he's trying to conserve, it seems, is the Chamber of Commerce and business roundtable values. Radio Talk Show Host Mike Gallagher, Democratic strategist Hank Scheinkopf, with us next on those issues. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Joining us tonight, the Host of the Mike Gallagher Show, Mike Gallagher; Democratic Strategist Hank Scheinkopf.

Hank, we're looking at something that's remarkable. You're watching the establishments of both parties say, "You know, you're just going to have to deal with the way it is. Super delegates are here to stay."

On the Republican side, they're saying, "OK, it's rigged, it's corrupt, but that's the way we do business."

HANK SCHEINKOPF, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Both parties are in very serious trouble. Both parties are losing their constituencies. Both parties are losing their ideological reason to be. Religion is off the table anymore. There's no constraints on peoples' behavior. And the elites don't want to give up the power they have.

MIKE GALLAGHER, TALK SHOW RADIO HOST OF THE MIKE GALLAGHER SHOW: It's fascinating to see the elites be so tone deaf. They don't hear what the American people are screaming. I interviewed Reince Priebus this morning on my radio host.

And he said, "Listen, these are the rules, and it's our job to educate everybody on the rules."

And I said, "Mr. Chairman, do you not hear the rage of people who are fed up with feeling like they're getting this (INAUDIBLE) from them.

SCHEINKOPF: I don't believe they're tone deaf at all. I think you're being very kind, and that's because you're a nice person. I think they're elite liars. They want to control what they have. They don't want to give up what they have. And they don't want (inaudible) anything to poor, great unwashed.

What, they're finding, both on the left and on the right, is the great unwashed have had enough.

DOBBS: You know, the question comes, Mike, I mean, are people angry enough to say, "You know, the hell with you."

SCHEINKOPF: Oh, they'll walk.

GALLAGHER: Lou, they're going to walk away.

DOBBS: It's got to be more than walk because this is a -- I'm going to say lifetime, it may be much beyond that - the opportunity to actually influence and alter the outcome for future generations is this year.

SCHEINKOPF: But that's how they do it is by walking. If they walk away and say, "I'm never going to vote for this particular political party again, and I think you're right, both Republicans and Democrats are starting to say this. That's how they blow up the infrastructure and that's how they tell the elites, "Never again."

DOBBS: Are you kidding me? If you're really saying that people don't vote for Trump, to some degree, Cruz, I mean, that's their last shot to blow it up.

GALLAGHER: Not voting is a vote. Not voting is a decision.

DOBBS: You have to vote for four liberal justices on the Supreme Court. Vote for a continuation of the disastrous policies of the last eight years.

GALLAGHER: It's a vote against life.

It's the sanctity of life, I mean, let's be clear.

DOBBS: The vote has to be for whom? To make things change? There's only one disrupter, in my opinion, in this race. Who would you say that one disrupter is? Or give me two, I don't care.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think Trump is a disrupter. I feel Cruz is a disrupter for different reasons. Kasich is the - is the I don't think he's the establishment candidate, but Cruz and -

DOBBS: In a three-man race, think about that.

SCHEINKOPF: If Cruz can figure out how to get into the Midwest and make job arguments that work, he can actually be a contender in the general election. People are not paying attention. People have just had enough.

GALLAGHER: It's the story of the insurgent, and that's what we're seeing ...

SCHEINKOPF: Correct.

GALLAGHER: And the insurgent's message is resonating; the party elites just don't hear it.

SCHEINKOPF: Mike is right.

DOBBS: The fact is, I think, they're protecting the orthodoxy. They're protecting the status quo, and they're protecting policies that have been in place for 40 years, 40 years. The consecutive trade deficits you mean. Nineteen trillion dollars. A shrinking middle class since the 1970s. And people are saying they don't want the disrupter?

SCHEINKOPF: The con job done to the American public by Republicans and Democrats is being seen through, and the elites don't know what to do.

GALLAGHER: And that's just it, the American people get this, Lou, this is not a mystery to people, and they're understanding it, it's just that I don't understand this - why the party elites don't hear this cacophony.

DOBBS: Because they're afraid to, they're masters don't wish them to. Mike Gallagher, Hank Scheinkopf, thank you, gentlemen.

That's if for us tonight. We thank you for being with us. Newt Gingrich, Arthur Laffer, Wilbur Ross among our guest here tomorrow. We hope you will join us, and there's the poll. Ninety-five to 5, not bad. Our highly scientific poll.

Thanks for being with us tonight. Good-night from New York.

END

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