Japan: Toyota Engineer Died From Overwork

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Overwork - USA 7/9/2008 12:28:00 PM Has similar studies been done in US for overwork deaths? I know of plenty of people working 70 - 80 hours per week. One recently had a heart attack - thankfully not fatal.
Overwork 7/9/2008 12:33:00 PM Working 80hours overtimes per month means about 12 hour days; OR if you factor in weekends it just means 8 hour days. That is hard to believe as being the 'cause' of death. At 45 yrs, it would be more likely that the 'cause' was cardio-vascular disease. Clearly this is a case of either manipulating the system to get the benefits for the family OR someone is trying to send a message -- but OVERWORK it isnt.
Japan: Toyota Engineer Died From Overwork 7/9/2008 12:48:00 PM Working too hard?
save Toyota Engineer 7/9/2008 1:05:00 PM If we stop buying Toyota cars, we may save the life of its engineers.
Overwork 7/9/2008 1:12:00 PM ...but OVERWORK it isnt.??? Try it for a couple of months then repeat your comment.
Overwork - Comment 7/9/2008 1:13:00 PM I suspect the author of the "Overwork" comment is in U.S. corporate management...
Overwork 7/9/2008 1:23:00 PM This is a joke! Most professionals work more than 80 hours per week due to the necessity to meet company objectives and deadlines and most do not get compensated for it-sheer benefit of being a professional I guess.
Hours hours hours 7/9/2008 1:26:00 PM I work 10 to 12 a day then take the laptop home and work more. Up until sunday night 12:30 working. I get tired of it also. I feel for the family. But my bills also must be paid.
Overwork 7/9/2008 1:26:00 PM The article states that 80 hours per month is the criteria for overwork. It also states that the engineer worked in excess of this amount. Comments that this individual wasn't overworking are either based on information not given or from not understanding what the article actually says. My impression would be that this individual was likely putting in 80+ hours per week with his working nights and weekends. Perhaps reviewing the article again would help in understanding what is really said.
Overwork 7/9/2008 1:34:00 PM I agree that 12 hour days are a lot to work but that is not unusual for many of us - especially management. I suspect there are other health issues as well - some people simply cannot handle stress well.
OVERWORK 7/9/2008 1:39:00 PM Right the article says he worked over 80 hours of overtime which means 40 plus 80 or over 120 hours a week. I do half that and get worn out.
Re: Overwork 7/9/2008 1:39:00 PM 80+ hours of OVERTIME per month means 12 hour work days at 5 work days/week or 10.5+ hour days at 7 work days/week (somebody's math was off). That is assuming a baseline of 8 hours/day as the typical work day. How can that NOT be considered overwork? Do YOU work that many hours as a ROUTINE schedule? Do YOU think that if you do not, you'll be unemployed? Assuming that someone would have keeled over eventually anyway is entirely missing the point. Predisposition + STRESS = bad outcome SOONER.
Re: Overwork 7/9/2008 1:49:00 PM In Japan, your normal working hours are between 10-12 hours per day and they you add 20 hours/wk in this case, means 16-17 hours/day. Then you add stress, lack of rest, low/no physical workout; all added, it is a time-bomb.
overwork 7/9/2008 1:51:00 PM Force corporations to compensate on a monthly basis for anything over the 50hrs a week and you'll see them cutting back on the work load for the professional ranks.
8 hour workday? 7/9/2008 1:56:00 PM Overwork - I'm not certain that anything over 8h/day or 40h/week is considered "overtime" in Japan. I think it may be more like 10h/day or 50-60/week, meaning 80h overtime a month is probably like 13-15h days 6 days/week.
re: overwork 7/9/2008 1:56:00 PM that was 80 hours of overtime, not 80 hour workweeks
Dig a bit Deeper 7/9/2008 2:22:00 PM Try googling "karoshi" for more information.
overwork 7/9/2008 2:27:00 PM Before concluding that this engineer wasn't really working any harder than us, look closely at the article, add the effects of all the factors in the article (stress from frequent flights abroad, apprehension about upcoming Detroit Auto show, because he was grappling with problems with his project which may have been insurmountable, etc.),and consider some ideas not overtly mentioned. Toyota, a huge company, most likely opposed the claim, which makes the decision to honor the claim all the more significant. And, I think there are probably other factors, including more hours worked, that were not reported, which would be done as part of the Japanese tradition of self-sacrifice for the good of the "group", the company. For example, if the company required him to keep time records, and, due to the Japanese psyche, he would have seriously under-reported his hours, especially to make sure it looked as though his boss(es) worked longer hours. This would have increased the overtime hours by two or three times, in my experience. I have worked with and for Japanese companies as an engineer. These things are all common to their beliefs and behavior. When, after the loss of WWII, many lost faith in the divinity of the emporer, superiority and destiny of the Japanese race, etc., I have often wondered if WORK became the defacto religion. When you consider the miraculous recovery of Japan: after their industries were nearly completely destroyed in the war, they recovered more quickly than any other country and became a manufacturing giant, along with an economic power. That took an almost religious devotion to work, which was naturally present anyway, but which was intensified by the outcome of WWII. And, has been noted for at least most of MY lifetime (more than 50 years, but I won't say how much more!), Japan has become a stellar performer in the world's economy, due to the hard work and devotion of Japanese workers. Heck, I have always bought Japanese cars because they were clearly better than those from Detroit, and cheaper than German and other cars. Now, they may be paying the price: there are many more factors about overwork which should be considered (did the overwork of his parents contribute genetically to his death? for example). My son spent a couple of years in Japan and has often told me of the things I have listed, as well as many others. I admire Japan, but, I don't want them to continue to "kill themselves" to give me cheaper, quality merchandise. I would accept a higher price for those products if it meant they could live a normal life. Oh, and one more thing: does anyone remember the show "Gung Ho", starring Michael Keaton? It was about this subject, and the conclusion was that the Japanese do work too hard. Interesting.
you should try our industry 7/9/2008 2:37:00 PM Here in the Nuclear Industry during start up of units 1 and 2 we worked 80 to 96 hours a week with scattered overtime for over4 years with a few weeks of 60 hours to get some rest.....yeah really so 80 hours a months to much well maybe he had other medical issues but 80 hours a month of OT is a pittance...I'm sorry for the family's loss though that is never acceptable.....the NRC is just now looking into and setting standards for fatigue monitoring and working less then 84 hours a week and if you're a supervisor that really about 91 hours a week due to turnovers from one shift to the next......yeah gottah pay the bills you think anyone steps up and says hey I feel fatigue and want to take off tomorrow yeah right...... lol...
Overwork??? 7/9/2008 3:08:00 PM If you're working days, taking a laptop home for evenings and weekends, then you need to GET A LIFE!! We all have objectives for personal and company goals, but give me a break! A good friend of mine told me once, "you're dead a long time". Do you get it now?
Overwork 7/9/2008 3:33:00 PM Bottom line after reading all of these articles about what is and isn't too much work and what a manager needs to do, an Amish farmer would not work his horse / mule team to the extent most American managers are working. Like the last entry said you are dead a long time and all of your work does not count when you go, you are repalced in a few hours or days and forgotten in a few months or years. This may be one of the hidden problems in America a definition of success that is flawed.
??Overworked?? 7/9/2008 3:53:00 PM I really find it hard to believe that this death was caused from being overworked. I have for years held a full time job and two part time jobs. I reguarlly work 80-95 hours per week. It seems to me that there must have been some underlying health issues that were not addressed do to him working so much. But please, keep in mind that we are each responsible to keep up with our own health. Even if it means taking a step backwards and saying "I am going to take today off for ME and my family."
Proud? 7/9/2008 4:34:00 PM A lot of comments here make it sound as if people are proud of working 80, 90, 100 hours per week, multiple jobs, etc. I agree with one comment from above -- get a life people. I am 45 yrs old and a manager for a Fortune 100 company... and it has been my experience that most people who put that kind of time in want to, not because it is required, at least not consistently (not saying this is the case in the Toyota story). Like most things in this country we need to look at ourselves and take responsibility for what we do, not sound like the victim. Learn to live I say, not learn to work!
Overwork 7/9/2008 5:16:00 PM 80 hours of OT per month? 12 hour days...very similar to my situation for a large US Corporation. I realize this is an issue AND that it is hard to separate from a health problem (often related to lack of exercise from the extra work and stress)...but I see the the problem not unique to Japan. Glad it is being recognized....it is a competitive world with no safety net for most, except for your individual judgment and values I think.
Overwork 7/9/2008 6:50:00 PM I set a record once at 150 hours per week. Fortunately it was only for two weeks and I was 24 at the time. Yes that means about 2.5 hours of down time per day. I was ill for two weeks after. Will never do it again. It happens in America too, we just don't talk about it.
Former Engineer for Toyota 7/9/2008 7:10:00 PM I worked for Toyota in Ann Arbor MI for 5 years & am sure I worked with this guy who died but I cant find out who he is. One thing about Toyota engineers from Japan, they do not disclose the actual overtime hours they work. During peak design time, I would work from 8am - 4am the next day & alternate that every other day. We got paid the overtime so of course I reported the hours. For the Japan staff, they dont get paid ovetime & also they appear as weak engineers if they have to work many hours to get the job done so they report alot less. This guy most likely worked about 18 hours a day. I spent alot of time at Toyota in Japan & I saw some crazy stuff from those guys. A good number of engineers actually commited suicide by jumping out the top floors of the buildings in Toyota City.
Overworked? Get A Life! Taka A Vacation! 7/9/2008 7:28:00 PM Check out, unplug and enjoy life. Work will always be there tomorrow! Just say no to overtime.
Overwork Comments 7/9/2008 10:53:00 PM Wow I have never seen so many comments on a subject here. There must be a plethora of overworked engineers that still have time to post comment on how overworked they are. Now get back to work and invent something powered by perpetual motion.. Huh!
IT HAPPENS HERE TOO! 7/10/2008 12:19:00 AM I heard of an employee at a telecommunications company that died while working long hours with a pnuemonia type illness. I an 48 years old and I spent the last year working 50 to 60 hours per week doing software development. It has taken a toll on my health and my family. My employer recently started having employees enter the actual hours they work instead of how they spent their 40 hours. They quickly found out that my group was overworked and they are hiring another engineer. Employees have to speak up and let their employers know when they are pushed too far. Employees also have to support each other by not competing against each other and by spreading the news when they know someone is being overworked.
Define work 7/10/2008 4:19:00 AM It's been my experience that everyone overestimates the time they spend working. "At work" is different from "working". Some people use the first 8 hours of a workday to conduct their personal life and waste everyone else's time. Then they work 4-6 hours to get their job done. The amazing part is that these poeple really believe they are overworked. It's not the hours, it's the stress. Eight hours as an air traffic controller does not equal eight hours tapping on a laptop. Likewise, doing physical labor in 100 degree heat is not the same as sitting in an air-conditioned office all day.
stress 7/10/2008 7:27:00 AM Peple are overlooking the mental stress element and probably diet that goes with a busy schedule. My father had his first heart attack in 1969 trying to rush out thestres analysis of the C-5A wing tipos for Lockheed. The mental stress was enormous for him as he was a physically fit soccer player. The physical stress is secondary to the mental stress.
Could have been many things 7/12/2008 7:19:00 PM Lack of food. Lack of water. Poor calorie intake. Heart attack. Diabetic attack. Drugs. I know many Japanese men spend their night at the bar drinking hard. They also chain smoke.
Stress 7/13/2008 1:04:00 PM Stress is something that creeps up on you. You think you can handle it, everyone around you is "handling it". Then one day you realize that your always sick, you can't sleep, your family are strangers, you can't think clearly and your always angry even while sleeping. The cost of overwork is way more than the compensation provides. I no longer work in Aircraft. If it is the work ethic in Japan to work extreme hrs, they don't have any alternatives. I think I'm going to go and think up a perpetual motion machine to provide a life for one on the managers on the previous postings. He will be able to enjoy it using one of the countless products designed here and in Japan (etc) by the overworked engineers and production line workers.
overtime 7/14/2008 9:53:00 AM I work for a Japanese automotive subsupplier and they are ALWAYS here after we leave. I've always subscribed to the 'Kelly' Johnson (Skunk Works) attitude on overtime; "If you can't do it with brainpower, you can't do it with manpower or overtime".
Life is Too Short 7/14/2008 10:15:00 AM I work as a software engineer for a large gaming equipment manufacturer in Las Vegas. At one point, I was working 60-hour weeks. After some months, I just got tired of it, and cut back my hours to 40 per week. You know what? My work output then doubled, and I made less mistakes! With fuel prices the way they are, I am surprised that companies don't go to 4 10-hour days per week. To all of my colleagues out there: !!!_GET_A_LIFE_!!!
Get a life, literally 7/14/2008 10:55:00 AM After reading the preceding comments, it seems very strange to find so many individuals are thrilled and proud to be the modern day kamikaze pilots of the working world. Is it a badge of honor to work for little more than minimum wage? Would the company these individuals work for be willing to give away their product to ‘one-up’ the competition to be the least profitable. Each individual is their own personal corporation. I would think highly educated individuals would at least view their service in terms of profit/loss. Do they ever consider “what is best for myself and my family” as personal mission statement before sacrificing their families, recreation, mental well being, and yes, their lives for a employers supposed net profit. I have yet to visit a cemetery and find a headstone donated by an employer that reads “ Here lies John. Our corporation will be forever in his debt for donating his pathetic compulsive life to advance the company mission”. GET A LIFE, put in an honest days work for a fair salary, work longer when absolutely necessary. If the corporation doesn’t like it, get a different job, get a real job. It is a fallacy that more work leads to more profit. Like machines, humans burn out when operated at twice their design limit. Quality and productivity supported by a stable and well rested mind will far surpass that of a burned out and brain washed psyche. How is your personal corporation doing today?
Overworked 7/14/2008 1:54:00 PM This is a tragedy, not only for the person but a severe loss to his family. Family is extremely important in Japan. There are also two other losses: one to Toyota for this man's ability but also to society especially the engineering society for what this man could pass on and teach to others. This is a real tragedy for all.
Overwork.. 7/14/2008 7:32:00 PM Buy GERMAN cars, save a life...GERAMNS know how to take vacations, live, drink good beer, have OCTOBERFEST....While still making teh best cars, invent the cool stuff, and enjoy life, if you buy TOYota stuff are you suporting slave workers? GERAMNS take lotsa vacations, enjoy life, driving in great GERAMN cars....Geramsn like to rest, so they can think better, over work never helps no one. If ya can't get it done in 8 hours, you are doing something wrong, poor planning, poor execution....
re: Get a life, literally 7/15/2008 4:06:00 PM Indeed. I have to agree with you and the few sane minds that posted something similar. Unfortunately, I have to laugh at the "proud" overworkers. If I'm not getting paid extra for that overtime or get the equivalent (paid)time off afterwards, then it is just 35 hour work weeks for me. And NO, I do not work on weekends. Remember people: you work to live, not live to work. Plan your work better and get a life.
overwork -> sleep deprivation -> torture 7/17/2008 3:29:00 PM I love the "Get a life, literally" post. It is spot on. Now to my subject: overwork leads to sleep deprivation (if you can fall asleep in 5 minutes from laying down, you're probably deprived; if you fall asleep after eating lunch, you're probably deprived). Sleep deprivation, continued for too long, leads to psychological and physiological problems. The US Army determined they had to let their soldiers rest at least 3 hours per night in stressful combat situations or they would be too fatigued. The body needs the first 3 hours of sleep to repair. The last three hours of sleep (assuming a 9 hour sleep period) are when the brain really gets recharged. Einstein couldn't function well without 10 hours a night. Sleep deprivation in the extreme is a torture technique, resulting in severe psychosis, as well as death. If you're still reading, now re-read "Get a life, literally".
Over Worked 7/18/2008 7:23:00 AM Don't be weak, WORK it out!
Salary 7/18/2008 9:35:00 AM My husband is a supervisor and has been working 80-90 hour weeks and I'm fed up. He won't even complain and gets annoyed with me when I get upset about him never being home (not upset at him, but at his employer). Is there anything we can do other than quit our jobs?
Interuptions all day lead to staying late to get things done when others have gone... 7/18/2008 11:26:00 AM I have found my "Scheduled Meeting (please come back later)" sign to be priceless. I can put it on my door and get things done without the constant interuptions. I still work 10+ hour days but at least they aren't 12hrs anymore.
Overwork 7/24/2008 5:26:00 PM All you need to do is put in 128 hours of overtime per week for two weeks, and I guarantee you no one will appreciate it. Especially you, if you were still alive, that is.
It's not the hours it's the intensity! 7/24/2008 6:09:00 PM I've known lots of people who recorded long hours at work, but being at work isn't the same as working. 8 intense focused hours without a break can produce more than 16 casual recorded hours, be more tiring, and be more detrimental to one's health. So when you've started at 8:00am and at 4:00pm realize you haven't had your first cup of coffee, a bathroom break, or anything to eat, and take your first 30 second break of the day, I will wager that you will have already accomplished significantly more than someone who is just recording those 18 hour days. The Japanese are typically very focused and intent workers, so the combination of that intensity with the long hours was likely what did him in.

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