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U.S. Says Chinese Spying Rampant
By Foster Klug, Associated Press Writer
Manufacturing.Net - November 19, 2009

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WASHINGTON (AP) -- A U.S. congressional advisory panel said Thursday that Chinese spies are aggressively stealing American secrets to use in building Beijing's military and economic strength.

The U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission also said in its annual report to lawmakers that Beijing is building a navy that could block the U.S. military from getting to the region if fighting should break out between China and Taiwan, the self-governing island off China's southeastern coast that China claims as its own.

The report follows President Barack Obama's visit this week to China, where he had extensive talks with President Hu Jintao. The commission tends to take a tougher stance on China than either Obama or his predecessor, George W. Bush. Obama wants to nurture ties with a country the United States needs to deal with some of the world's toughest crises, including nuclear standoffs with Iran and North Korea, climate change and global economic recovery.

The commission, set up by Congress in 2000 to advise, investigate and report on U.S.-China affairs, said U.S. officials believe Chinese spying is "growing in scale, intensity and sophistication."

"China is the most aggressive country conducting espionage against the United States," the report said.

Wang Baodong, spokesman for the Chinese Embassy in Washington, called the spying allegations "baseless, unwarranted and irresponsible."

He called the commission's suggestion that China's navy is being built up to challenge the United States in the Pacific a "Cold War fantasy." Beijing's military spending, he said, is only a fraction of Washington's.

More generally, Wang accused the commission of recycling old, unproven allegations and issuing an annual report "aimed at misleading the American public."

The report said China was the origin of much of the rise in malicious computer attacks against the United States in 2009.

China's increased targeting of U.S. government and defense computer systems, the report said, could "destroy critical infrastructure, disrupt commerce and banking systems and compromise sensitive defense and military data."

Among the commission's recommendations are for Congress to review the U.S. ability to meet the "rising challenge" of Chinese spying and to fend off computer attacks.

Congress, the commission said, also should urge the Obama administration to push harder for China to reduce the number of missiles and forces opposite Taiwan.


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Yes, yes they are stealing eveything they can.  11/19/2009 11:36:00 AM
A look at your personal router firewall log will show CONTINUAL pings from IP addresses originating in China. I had them EVERY FOUR SECONDS while I was a Comcast customer. Why does this happen? Because, in part, there are continual purposeful intrusions into our digital environment. In part, also, to choke the lines of the U.S. internet. China spies on private individuals, perhaps not sanctioned or officially suggested, but they do, nonetheless. China spies on our industries, as anyone with a desk in our field can attest to: suspicious email, snailmail, and phone contacts for people fishing for information. China steals patents. China pays off US politicians by huge campaign contributions- and it works. (Again- look it up- Clinton and the National Forest, and coal that competes with China. Most favored nation status?? Huh, Clinton??) China can prove a low level of military spending because the taxation for that budget is infinitesimally small compared to the profits funneled to it by "private enterprise" that is actually owned or subsidized by the Chinese government. Don't believe it? Look it up. Check out Norinco, its subsidiaries, suppliers, contributors- and who IT contributes TO. China's military shows a strategy of defensive buildup over the past three decades, culminating in exponential increases in the last ten years. The latter included weapons of "greater impact" such as fuel-air bombs and the like. An example: "According to the congressional testimony of Gary Milhollin of the Wisconsin Project on Nuclear Arms Control in 1997, Norinco subsidiaries in the U.S. include: Beta Chemical, Beta First, Beta Lighting, Beta Unitex, China Sports (California), Forte Lighting, Larin, NIC International (New Jersey)" (Wikipedia, "Norinco", retrieved 11/19/09.)
Chinese Spying  11/19/2009 11:37:00 AM
This article reminds me of 3 significant facts we would do well to consider. Arms is the largest business on the planet. The 5 permanent seats on the UN Security Council are held by the 5 largest arms manufacturing countries. The US is the largest of those by far.
China spying? Say it Ain't so!  11/19/2009 11:43:00 AM
Let me get this straight. this is news? This has been blatent to the point of obvious to five year olds. This is their modus operendum. It's how they've built up their ecenomic strength in the first place. We knew this in the eighties. Then, thanks to greed, gave them favored nation status! We deserve to end at their hands at this point. Anyone who claims not to know this is either a fool or actively assisting.
Global Domination  11/19/2009 11:52:00 AM
As the US moves to a service-based economy our ability to react to threats diminishes even further. In past conflicts we have been able to support our troops via utilization of manufacturing infrastructure to build planes, tanks, etc. Our rush to buy cheap goods is driving everything offshore. Without the manufacturing base we are vulnerable.
China vs USA  11/19/2009 11:57:00 AM
We can’t win. Obamination, his Washington Kiddy Crew, Harry, Nancy, Unions, SECCA, Acorn and all the elitist academia don’t understand we are creating programs and laws that are sending jobs overseas. The skill set will follow. The world’s highest skilled engineers, computer gurus, etc. will follow the opportunities. You can’t train an engineer if there are no opportunities to test their theories with hands on manufacturing
China is the sleeping dragon  11/19/2009 12:02:00 PM
china's military strategy has always been old school, win by numbers, this is why they have a million man army, they changed after the Iraq war's when they seen what technology could do, now they are trying to steal any and all technology they can to caught up with the US, they are quickly gaining ground and when they get with in a stones throw they will wake up that dragon.
CEO's selling US out  11/19/2009 12:05:00 PM
Forget about espionage, Boards of Directors / CEO's are giving US technology away when they move manufacturing to China. Not only product technology, but manufacturing expertise. While I'm sure there is spying going on, our greedy company leaders (for lack of a better word), are selling out America for huge salaries and bonuses. These people have absolutely zero social conscience.
Relentless search for enemies  11/19/2009 12:17:00 PM
This reminds me of the anti-Japan fashion of the 1980s when they were a dominant economy. You better get busy with trying to compete and stop wasting our time with this fear-mongering.
Chinese Spying  11/19/2009 12:23:00 PM
Just look how aggresive is Hon Hai. This company started making connectors and now is a contractor for Apple, HP,Intel and many big technology coporations. Remember the employee from Hon Hai that killed himself because he "lost" an Iphone. Do you really believe he lost it. They are and have been stealing secrets from USA corporations for long time, but the USA corporations are the real ones carrying that responsability.IBM sold it's laptop business to Lenovo. Soon there will be no Apple's,HP's if they continue making business with Chinese companies. They don't care who they put out of business or purchased it.
Relentless search for enemies?  11/19/2009 12:29:00 PM
The Japanese were never accused of governmental economic spying, or attempting to disrupt our economy. What they were accused of was making so much money that they could buy hunks of America. There's a difference -- one is warlike belligerence, and the other is capitalism. One we can compete with, while the other must be fought with equal fire.
lets default on thier loans to us  11/19/2009 12:38:00 PM
Who wants to pay them back so much money. Lets default on their loans to us.
Get over it  11/19/2009 12:46:00 PM
Relentless search for enemies says it well. Who says a rising tide raises all ships? Sounds like that argument is only used when convenient to defending unregulated capitalism and bashing the current administration. Well, it applies here, too. Scared? Of course so...that Fox news and those canned e-mails will get you shaking in your BOOts! Take the blinders off and realize they are still people, and probably working harder than most of us under much less favorable conditions. The average income there is still significantly lower than an American's, and hopefully someday we can all be on the same level. What's the big deal with China spying? Remember, we came up with it in the first place and should be focusing on the next best thing anyway. Let them have our old stuff, we don't need it.
RE: Relentless..  11/19/2009 1:08:00 PM
Chinese spy maybe? The US was complacent during the 2nd World War. They didn't heed the sutle threats of the Japanese because they thought the distance and a small country would have little influence. Boy was FDR wrong on that one. Our crruent administration is sticking its head in the sand as well. With the recent trip to China, where did it get the US? No where. The Chinese president gave BO the ho-hum and basically the brush off. The ONLY thing the Chinese will respect if they don't steal that as well is strength in arms. Every administration to this point has known it. There's another three years with this one. Let's hope this doesn't erupt in another World War becasue it could be the last.
To: "Relentless Search for Enemies"  11/19/2009 1:26:00 PM
Hey, maybe you don't know history. WE GAVE JAPAN the means to dominate the economy, we just don't learn. We're doing the same thing with China. The ChiComs will take everything they can get and use it against not only us but any other economic and military power they can.They want to dominate the economy and be THE superpower. We gave Japan our expertise and we are now dominated by their manufacturing culture (i.e: Kanban, etc.) We don't learn, we only cahse the money. The spineless, peacenik Congress and the money-hungry speculators are what's ruining our country and we just stand by or follow like sheep. Time to make a real change in 2010. VOTE OUT THE INCUMBENTS.
Be Man enough to admit  11/19/2009 1:27:00 PM
America should be man enough to admit that we have the best and most sophisticated spying equipment in the world, and we are annoyed that other nations can do it cheaply though the internet. We should be man enough to say that our CEOs are greedy enough to give away American technology for a quick buck. And our people are more interested in spending way above their means instead hunkering down to produce the best goods that can compete internationally, and we should be man enough to tackle these problems head-on instead of whining that other people are beating us at our own games. America was a justifiably proud nation, but we cannot live on legacy alone.
Fueling China's Military-Industrial Complex  11/19/2009 1:30:00 PM
Forget "greed", .. it's what makes the world go 'round. But, it's sad that the consumer's lust for cheap goods combined with business's desire to deliver them, has not only put many an American out of a job, but has also fueled the engine of China's military might. Do not forget that China is a brutal, repressive, communist dictatorship that desperately seeks control of Taiwan. In a few years we'll be powerless in their defense. Economic sanctions will be a worthless threat, as we'll be unable to function without their goods; we won't even be able to change a lightbulb.
How can we compete???  11/19/2009 1:39:00 PM
When the President, Congress, EPA and states like California are all forcing industry out of the US? Industry cannot compete when the laws and rules are so skewed against us. WAKE UP - we have been running industry out of the US since the 70's and soon will not be able to produce anything. Would the last person out of the US please turn off the lights? Ooops, I forgot, the US won't have any power because we have to stop "climate change" but will allow China to pollute more than we ever thought about...
Chinese Spying   11/19/2009 1:41:00 PM
Well DUUUHHHHHHH!!!
CEO / Relentless  11/19/2009 1:48:00 PM
CEO- Exactly. And in that goal we the people need to impress upon them that we will NOT purchase their foreign goods, or support their subsidiary companies. This IS war, civil in a sense, against our own manufacturing management. Relentless- What you suggest would be a race between Jesse Owens and Archie Bunker- with the latter wearing ice skates. There IS NO competition when you have an endless supply of sub-third-world workers. There IS NO competition when you don't care one iota about the world environment. There IS NO competition when your own government allows your company's exports to be taxed at a rate that China's imports are not a tiny fraction of. There IS NO competition when our CEOs and corporate management (you speak the same way they do, by the way,) sell us out for the gain of a handful of individuals; who rape established companies for all they are worth, leaving a failing legacy for all that follow. We have a RIGHT to be anti-Japanese or anti-Chinese, as we are still free. (Which is an amazing fact when you consider the lack of historical / contextual, intellectual / educational level of our masses.) We made amends for our abrupt stop to WWII with nukes in Japan: by rebuilding the country, infrastructure, health care, manufacturing base, and social programs. How do they thank us? By dumping Toyotas and Hondas at losses for decades. So you suggest it is our own fault? If I were to concede that, logic then dictates that we are still at war with them. I don't mind a competitor at any level- for attention, for sport, or for business- so long as they fight fair. Nor do most other people. For, it forces us to do what you suggest, and what we have, in fact, done for a century. Only in the last thirty years has our dumbed-down populous allowed such criminals in our government and corporate sectors to do this to us, or to actively allow it to perpetuate. If we were to do what you suggest, we had better drop all the green initiatives, pay everyone at a level comparable to 1860, remove ALL health care and company benefits, force inhumane working conditions, use the law of attrition to continue our workforce, and begin to look only to ourselves to be our own provider. (The latter requires an immediate and permanent withdrawal of our troops from all foreign lands, a hollow support of any global initiatives and global cooperative programs, and... you know what? I don't have the TIME or SPACE to fill all of that in. I'd say you had better get busy figuring it out for yourself instead of suggesting the very same behavior that over half our populous would vehemently oppose, and that would certainly piss off the rest of the world.
Remember the 70's?  11/19/2009 2:00:00 PM
When the communists said that they would take over the US without firing a shot? They are doing that now, WAKE UP. The socialists (Obama, Pelosi, Reid) have us heading this direction so fast that no one can stop us now...
Re: CEO/Relentless...  11/19/2009 2:36:00 PM
You hit the nail on the head. Let me add two other points. 1- ITAR/EAR regulations are already in place to prevent military or dual use technical information from getting into foreign hands. Right now in the USA workers that are not citizens or resident aliens are not allowed to even see this information. If China aquires this information it is by spying plain and simple. 2-Both the Dems & Progressive Repubs have sold this country out. Read the "Failure Factory" for some great insight into China, Russia and the manifestations of political correctness.
Re: Remember the 70's?...  11/19/2009 3:14:00 PM
The communists said the quickest way is to remove America’s soul and it will collapse in on itself like all other republics in the past. I still have hope. Go to givemeliberty.org and watch the continental congress 2009 for a plan of action. It's not to late if we the people are willing to stand up to tyranny.
Chinese and U.S.Jobs  11/19/2009 3:28:00 PM
As an electrical engineer, I see the Chinese infiltrating our universities engineering departments stealing intellectual property. Meanwhile, our lazy youth are taught to go to Harvard and Stanford to get MBAs, so they can work to help offshore all manufacturing to China. Unfortunately, we need the jobs here. They are also displacing engineers like myself. So do we all go work for the U.S. government? I’m reading my Mao's Little Red Book so I will be able to answer to my captors. NOT! Those who can, get engineering degrees. Those who can’t get business or communications degrees.
re: Re: CEO/...  11/19/2009 3:59:00 PM
Thanks for the book suggestion! Will do! (I did not mean to necessarily pick on Dems; it was the only example I knew of. Hopefully the book will help!)
Failure Factory Author an idiot.  11/19/2009 5:33:00 PM
Forget about political parties. Reagan and Nixon were the best foreign policy presidents. Learn from them. Reagan played Iraq against Iran, and kept Iran from bothering us for 8 years. When communism seemed unstoppable, Nixon played the China card. That stopped Soviet expansion dead in its tracks. Any smart general or president would not make themselves enemies of everybody, like this idiot is suggesting us to do. Communism is not a monolith, nor is Islam. We need to divide them, reach to the friendly sects and play them against the terrorist sects. That is the only smart thing to do. That is why I say this guy is an idiot.
The Consumer is KING   11/19/2009 5:51:00 PM
The consumer has the power to set a new course. BOYCOTT CHINESE GOODS. Retailers will listen if a Grass Roots movement insists on an alternative. It is currently the only real power we have to negotiate with them.
you got it all wrong  11/19/2009 6:28:00 PM
The only way to stop the taking over by Chinese manufacturing is for us to turn our clock back several decades. You really think paying $40 for a pair of socks is going to do this economy any good ?! We need to abolish all environmental restrictions and get rid all social non-sense programs. Everyone needs to sacrifice, from CEOs to labor. We need ban all unions and reduce minimum wage, so our labor becomes more attractive. Hey, it's better to get paid $10/hr then collecting unemployment. That's the hard truth. Can't handle it?
Open the books!!!  11/20/2009 3:23:00 AM
Why do they need to spy?!! We should openly share all of our government and trade secrets with our largest lender. What is all this hiding about? We are one big, happy, global family and the path ahead is illuminated by LEDs Made in China. Obama visited the Great Wall, but he ignored the writing on it...
Re: Taiwan  11/20/2009 4:19:00 AM
Quote: "The U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission also said in its annual report to lawmakers that Beijing is building a navy that could block the U.S. military from getting to the region if fighting should break out between China and Taiwan, the self-governing island off China's southeastern coast that China claims as its own." ____________________ Hey, Taiwan is a part of China as much as Long Island is a part of the US. China's military is ready to defend its territorial integrity. http://english.people.com.cn/90001/90776/90785/6774439.html
China Spying  11/20/2009 6:36:00 AM
The only missing ingredient is an anti-western coup in China.
Decades of R&D gone with the stroke of a pen  11/20/2009 11:33:00 AM
A couple years ago, GE signed a deal and gave away nuclear plant design and technology to China. A week ago they signed a deal and gave away decades of aircraft instrumentation to China. Now Locomotives. Only GM and GE produce locomotives in this country. China plays along, then cancles the contract, then steals it all and becomes a competitor from hell later on. Our "executives" have their golden parachutes and its all over for the USA. Decades of R&D and sweat and manufacturing trade secrets gone with the stroke of a pen and a hard drive full of CAD data which they run on pirated software.What they don't "licence" they have tens of thousands of loyal to the motherland engineers stealing. It's OVER GUYS. We will be able to make hot dog stands.I fear for my two sons big time.
You are a paranoid.  11/20/2009 1:07:00 PM
Chinese and U.S.Jobs 11/19/2009 3:28:00 PM Quote: "As an electrical engineer, I see the Chinese infiltrating our universities engineering departments stealing intellectual property. Meanwhile........" You are a paranoid indeed. Hey, if you go to a Chinese university to study. You may do some research in the library; no Chinese will accuse you for stealing their secrets.
Bravo Decades  11/20/2009 1:09:00 PM
Wow...I did not know about GM/GE. Thanks? Thanks for the post. Everyone needs to understand that this kind of thing is/has been happening.
Even worse than R&D gone  11/20/2009 1:40:00 PM
France and Japan have hundreds of nuclear plants working well and the US has only a few ancients ones falling apart. Japan and France have high speed locomotives and US has clunkers. It is true, it is over. We are so far behind we can hardly give it away. Time for us for some serious improving of our technologies: that is the only salvation.
It's one thing for Congress to finally admit  11/20/2009 3:21:00 PM
that they know what is going on. It is another thing entirely for these spineless leaches (Congress ... not the spies)to do anything about it. I guess we'll all get to see. We need to vote out as many as we can in 2010.
China's future  11/20/2009 4:33:00 PM
Read the bible, china's is the king of the east wiht a million men army, they will in 3 years think they can solve the middle east crisis. WWIII begins, 12/21/2012. They are getting prepared right now by stealling, balck marketing, black mailing, their way to it.
U.S. Says Chinese Spying Rampant  11/21/2009 10:08:00 PM
"could destroy critical infrastructure, disrupt commerce and banking systems and compromise sensitive defense and military data." well, who developed the internet the Chinese or the US, it looks like they did not had the time to do the right way the first time...that is not new in the US.
Food For Thought  11/22/2009 12:07:00 PM
I think we should all boycott Chinese food.
Chinese Spying  11/24/2009 12:06:00 PM
Our University Graduate Schools are over run with non-USA students at the Masters and Doctoral levels in Engineering and the Sciences. Typically Asiatic and Indian with a large percentage being Chinese. Typically these are older students in their late 20s and 30s. Most return home after graduating and take with them all the reaserch they did for Professor's as graduate assistants. Part of the problem is so few American students go for advance degrees in Engineering and the Sciences that without the foreign students and the very high tuitions they pay, most Engineering and Science graduate programs would shrink or not even exist. If you doubt me, check the Graduation Programs of any large University (Michigan, Purdue, MIT, Cal Tech, Stanford, etc) listing advance degree candidates in Science and Engineering. Very few Americans, especially at the Doctoral levels.
China spying  12/1/2009 11:10:00 AM
Afew of the commentors have it right. If we don't get more on par with the rest of the world in manufacturing costs, we will continue to lose jobs. Everyone is afraid that our infrastructure is going to collaspe, bull crap! Where are all the Doctors and engineers going to go? They will stay here and and bare the brunt of the correction with all of us. That is the only way we are going to keep or create jobs in this country. We can't be our own consumer any more. Wise up buddy, it's a global economy


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