Survey: Kids Saying No To Engineering

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Job Security 1/8/2009 4:48:00 PM OK fine. Being in high demand will make for lucrative salaries. Here's a hint for all those worried about their jobs: Get a job in defense engineering where you have to be a U.S. citizen. You won't get outsourced. High wages will lure the kids back in. The market will see to that.
Engineer shortage??? 1/8/2009 4:54:00 PM If there is a shortage of 70,000 engineers, then please, name one company that is actively hiring. Obviously there will be an exception, but from where I sit with more than 25 years experience, the trend has been for manufacturing to go overseas for cheap labor and subsidized capital. The myth of an engineer shortage is only perpetuated to allow large companies to bring in foreign nationals at lower salaries. If more engineering is needed, then utilize and compensate the engineers we have and the free market will recognize the shortage. I would not blame the kids for having a low perception of engineering. If the profession paid like rock stars, then we would all want to be engineers.
Engineering 1/8/2009 5:15:00 PM Our society encourages girls to be actresses or singers and boys to be athletes or rock stars. These are good skills to attain if you are the small percentage who can make a living doing it. Agree that kids need help in math and science and sold on the idea that engineering is a viable career. On the down side, I often have to correct what our math and science teachers tell my kids'. It's hard to do since the kids assume the teacher is right. Anybody else have a chemistry teacher that can't balance simple chemical equations of a math teacher that has trouble with fractions?
Mentoring New Engineers 1/8/2009 5:53:00 PM From what I've seen many of the managers in these companies have no idea how important it is to Mentor a new engineer, and as a result have setup many jobs for engineers not to be in contact with experienced engineers. We need to start there.
Kids and engineering careers 1/8/2009 6:37:00 PM The most important (at least most interesting) statistic that is lacking here is what careers do the boys want and why? It is mentioned what the girls are encouraged to do but not the boys.
Careers... if any 1/8/2009 6:37:00 PM My Daughter told me she wants to grow up and have a career just like her mom. Get married young have kids get divorced and take her husband for every penny he has for the rest of his life. Ain't America wonderful!
I am an engineer and just survived ANOTHER layoff ... 1/8/2009 6:49:00 PM ... And I have 3 year old twins, and I won't recommend engineering as a career. The lack of job security just isn't worth the benefits. Too many other careers out there with more job security, less or no risk of offshoring, avoiding the hire and fire mentality of so many companies, etc. My kids will most definitely grow up with a better understanding of how the world really works, than I or my generation did.
Too expensive 1/8/2009 6:56:00 PM I mentor for a high school FIRST Robotics Team and I asked the last team members if any were going to be engineers and all but one said no. Most were planning on being lawyers since the payback on schooling was better. The one that wasn’t grandfather was picking up the tab for his schooling. In my opinion there should be three professions whose education should be subsidized, teachers, general practitioners, and engineers. We have towns here in the Midwest that have found that the only way they can get a GP is through a schooling contract. With the recession in full gear what little help there was has all but dried up for many.
Kids Saying No To Engineering 1/8/2009 7:45:00 PM Not surprising as all the corporate perks, rewards, and recognition generally go to non-engineering fields such as management, finance and marketing. Engineers are generally treated as "second-class" citizens in the workplace in this country. How can we expect our young people to be interested in engineering careers?
Screwed up 1/8/2009 8:03:00 PM This is what you get when you have a union that doesn't pay science and math teachers more than gym teachers. Until schools pay for bright minds to teach the interesting teachers who may push kids toward these carreers will be in the field instead of teaching.
Kids not wanting to be engineers 1/8/2009 8:46:00 PM I knew we had a problem but the thing hit me when I heard one VERY HIGHLY POSITIONED politician boast that he was at the foot of his class in school and look now, he is the boss over all those guys who were doing better academically than he was back in school. Another TOP politician wanted to control the whole country including the military but could NOT operate a computer in YR 2008... Last year, US Justice Dept arrested 145 people and charged them with passing industrial and military secrets..and increasingly engineers are NOT US Citizens...Trouble ahead? You bet on it!
It is not the math, read Dilbert. . . 1/8/2009 9:12:00 PM It is not the math, read Dilbert to find out why they don't want to be an engineer. 70,000 engineers have to be the global number. Our company has been banned from hiring US engineers for a couple years now. All new hires must be located outside the continental United States.
I Don't Blame Them 1/8/2009 9:26:00 PM I have been a Software Engineer for the last 18 years. My income has only increased by 13% in the last 8 years. I am working 60 hours per week. Job stability for engineers is very poor. Companies treat engineers like an expendable commodity. I regret getting my engineering degree. I know my two children see my frustration and I am sure they have no desire to follow in my footsteps.
What "Shortage" of Engineers? 1/8/2009 11:22:00 PM What total BS this article is. Looks like another Big Business / Lobbyist written "plant" to pressure Congress to expand the H-1B, L-1 and other Foreign Worker Visa programs. Let's see: we have record unempoyment and under-employment, engineering wages in real-inflation-adjusted dollars are FALLING, companies routinely FIRE and REPLACE AMERICAN SCIENTISTS, ENGINEERS AND PROGRAMERS with younger, cheaper foreigners on H-1B visas, throwing Americans into the street, and then these same corporations and their lobbyists have the temerity to write tripe like this about a "shortage" of engineers? We don't even employ the Engineers we already have. Do you think kids will want to spend in excess of $100K on an engineering education when these same kids have seen their dads, moms, brothers, uncles, etc. who worked in Engineering (or the Sciences) thrown out into the street and replaced by a Foreign Worker on an H-1B Visa who, on average, makes 30% less money? Right now, the United States imports a total of about 138,000 Foreign Workers EVERY MONTH. This is about 1.6 MILLION FOREIGN WORKERS A YEAR. Then you have "outsourcing" of Engineering jobs (which is also facilitated by the H-1B Visa program). Let's see: falling wages, less job security, low status, no upward career path, outsourcing, etc. etc. and we are supposed to believe there is a "shortage" of Engineers? Gee, I guess the law of Supply And Demand no longer applies? If there was a SHORTAGE of Engineers, wouldn't Engineering salaries and job security be IMPROVING instead of GETTING WORSE? This story is nothing but propaganda and Manufacturing.net should be ashamed to publish it.
Engineering Survey Among Young 1/9/2009 12:18:00 AM If 15% are interested - that is a great number. I suspect that is higher than the general population ratio of today. Is the glass half full or half empty?
Kids Saying No To Engineering 1/9/2009 6:21:00 AM This is a no-brainer. Kids should pick a career path that is "recession proof"...not the job roller coaster we are currently on.
Engineering services are being farmed out to India 1/9/2009 6:39:00 AM With the best interest of my children in mind, how can I encourage them to become engineers? Like everything else industrial, this work is increasingly going out of the country to India and others.
Engineering! Why? 1/9/2009 6:43:00 AM Maybe the young people know more than we think they do. I'm an engineer for a large corporation but what I do on a daily basis is anything but. Most of my colleagues agree that we engineers have become nothing but glorified clerks. As such, our main job is to provide protection from the most feared word/process in corporate America, "AUDIT." No future there!!
What's wrong with this picture? 1/9/2009 7:26:00 AM This is what happens when perception overtakes reality. Because we have allowed people to believe engineers are the smartest people walking the earth, (when we know the real truth) students are intimidated when thinking about a possible career in the field. When reading this article, the issue is not just engineering, the issue is in how we put limits on the capabilities of our children in what they believe is attainable.
Kids Saying No to Engineering 1/9/2009 7:29:00 AM I have no doubt that this article is accurate. Sadly I think it is an indictment of our public education system. If you go into an engineering firm or most hospitals you will find an ever increasing number of Indian and Asian engineers and physicians. Their education seems to focus on math and science skills as being important. Our education system seems to focus more on getting children through school and not on knowledge. "Social promotion" statistics will bear this statement out.
Kids say no to engineering 1/9/2009 8:07:00 AM The underlying problem is that there are fewer and fewer manufacturing jobs available in the US, thus there is no incentive for our youth to pursue an engineering career. This needs to change quickly.
blame outsourcing 1/9/2009 8:38:00 AM With more and more engineering and manufacturing jobs being outsourced off shore you can't blame young people for shying away from what was in the past a lucrative engineering career.
Shortage? 1/9/2009 8:44:00 AM I'm an engineer and I don't believe there is nor will there be any shortage. Perhaps if industry would stop working current engineers to death and then outsourcing their jobs to India, they wouldn't have this so called shortage.
And this is news? 1/9/2009 8:44:00 AM I'm a fourth-generation, 30-year veteran engineer. My daughter is a mathematics junkie. Did I even mention let alone encourage her to pursue a career in engineering? Not a snowball's chance in the infernal regions. Engineers are currently not respected by the society at large. They are considered social pariahs to a greater degree than ever before. Engineers are not respected by their employers. B-school types consider engineers interchangeable headcounts similar to paced-line workers who insert parts into printed wiring boards. Engineers are laid off freely in bad times on the premise that younger, cheaper ones can be hired at the next upturn with no impact on design capability. The bitterly-gained experience in the engineer's noggin is considered worthless. And why hire me when you can get 4-5 guys just out of school in Shenzhen for the same price? Never mind that they have to make the same mistakes that I've already made and learned from. The cost of those mistakes is not considered relevent. Intel ran a TV ad a year or so ago talking about American innovation at the same time they announced their plan to off-shore at least 2/3 of their engineering capability within two years. That just made me mad. With no respect from anyone, no job security, and the entire profession being off-shored as rapidly as possible, who in his right mind would want to become an engineer now? The 15% of youth left looking at a career in engineering are being played for suckers.
Off-shore manufacturing 1/9/2009 8:53:00 AM Why would a parent encourage there kids to take an engineering career? The way manufacturing is moving off shore, the kids will have to move to China or India to use the education. The government has certainly not encouraged manufacturing in this country, they continually write laws that discourage manufacturing. Look around, the manufacturing plants are closing up and the jobs are leaving, why take a job in manufacturing or engineering?
I Agree 1/9/2009 9:09:00 AM Unfortunately! I have been an engineer for 25 years and my observations are the same as "And this is news?". People are so focused on time issues that engineering is actually second string. And everyone's mantra is to send the work offshore. Hard to enjoy working under those conditions.
Misunderstood 1/9/2009 9:42:00 AM Engineers are one of the most misunderstood groups in a company. I started out in design engineering in the automotive industry and the pressure to release designs and lack of resources was incredible. After a few years I did a management rotation through a number of different areas including ones that were considered "boiling pots of stress" that turned over the MBA's like crazy. I could not believe how much less stress I felt in those other positions. As long as you managed your work load, followed through, used your brain to problem solve, and communicated status it was easy. Most engineers are not good sales people, and as a result do not sell their value to the management team. They are more interested in the science and details of their job. This is unfortunate and results in a the positions being undervalued and outsourced.
Raise Salaries and job create tenure 1/9/2009 10:35:00 AM When a salesman makes more money than an engineer and has more job security why should kids go into engineering. Our CEOs have gutted the profession by outsourcing almost all engineering jobs. Engineering is doomed in America unless something is done on a national scale to provide job security and protect salaries (e.g. licensing). Why should plumbers have more job security then engineers?
Shortage 70,000 by 2010 1/9/2009 10:50:00 AM Where is this number from... Can we see figures backed by data. Has enrollment and graduating numbers decreased along with increasing needs from employers to give us such a number? I would have to agree with other's opinions on this Shortage propaganda unless there is supporting documentation. There seems to be data that contradicts this entirely- salary levels are not increasing and unemployment figures have not gone down.
Days Long Gone 1/9/2009 10:50:00 AM The days when engineers were considered to be a valuable part of a company are long gone. When I started, most larger companies had their own engineering staff, because those people both knew general engineering and the problems, challenges, and pitfalls within their own industry. within a couple years after I started, most companies laid off their in-house staff and "rented" the general engineering expertise from American engineering firms; the bean-counters either didn't realize or care about any industry-specific knowledge of the engineers, so they discounted the quality and price advantage such specific knowledge created. Only a skeleton crew of in-house engineers were kept, becoming the only industry-specific knowledge base for a company. About a decade later, the bean-counters struck again; they discovered that because of the computer age and the portability of general engineering knowledge, American engineering firms could be supplanted by foreign groups at a cheaper price, with no perceived difference in quality. The few in-house engineers could be covered by H1B "imports", also cheaper. This decimated American engineering firms. Add in the general dissolving of the American manufacturing base, and you have the dire situation we now have. Out of 4 kids, I have one (the youngest) that still is considering engineering, even though he has had to deal with the results of the salary stagnation and even salary reduction of his father, as I was downsized from several companies in several industries over 25 years. I have neither discouraged nor encouraged him, but I have stressed to him the need to find a technical field (not necessarily engineering as such) that is less volatile, less under-appreciated, and better for long-term career and salary prospects. The problem is that the bean-counters of all stripes are too busy looking at this quarter's bottom line to maximize their own bonus and that of their bigwigs, and have nearly destroyed the American economy and industrial base while doing it.
Company and Engineer Community Involvement 1/9/2009 10:56:00 AM I am proud to work for a company that sponsors committees and afinity groups that encourage community involvement. I am a part of an Outreach committee that visits classrooms from grade school through high school to present on what an engineer is (versus a general scientist), and how any interest in science can be matched to a type of engineering. We even do rapid-pace design challenges (5-15 minutes) and talk to the kids about which designs were the most successful and why. The same group matches high school and college students, and it's own non-engineering employees (people on the factory lines or in the offices) with engineers to go on day-long job shadows. Engineering may be a genetic disease, but it can be "caught" as well. I was lucky enough to have an enthusiastic father (did I mention I'm female?) who encouraged his daughters to pursue whatever interests they had. Not all kids are that lucky. That's why I belong to this committee. We engineers have the power to change the perception.
Shortage of engineers 1/9/2009 10:59:00 AM I will believe that there is a shortage of engineers when I will see a study of how many laid off engineers over the age of 50 found a job as engineers within six to eight months!
Show me the MONEY!!! 1/9/2009 11:07:00 AM "Money talks and ........ walks"- Until salary and job opportunities/advancement increas, Kids will not be enthused to attain such degrees. Becoming an educator has always been seen by those in that carreer as underpaid, but statistically looking back short term there have been some major increases(at least in the NorthEast). Also confirmed by results shown above as teachers made the cut as to what parents are recommending/encouraging the girls to think about. Is there a Shortage of overpaid Athletes/Entertainers(Musicians/Actors/Actresses)? The top paid in those fields have a large infrastructure below them that is supported by all of us that want such entertainment and are willing to pay the increasing prices. If we could all boycott such things than prices and salaries in those fields drop. Oil prices if we could all boycott the major gas stations would drop as well. It is all just become so convienent and available. In those entertainment fields though there might not be large unemployment numbers as they will take on the underpaid jobs as they aspire to their goals that only a few may reach and they too become part of the supporting infrastructure. The same goes for Engineering- when its top gets overpaid the supporting infrastructure will require aspiring youth to want!
Sign of the times 1/9/2009 11:45:00 AM I've been an engineer for 30 years. Would I do it again? H**l NO. 30k on a BSME and 6 years to pay off the student loans. With the huge amount of offshore workers that will work for nothing, it's NOT worth it. Long hours, crummy pay, and no respect or job security. Nope, I'd rather work for GM and put bumpers on cars for 120k a year. Or maybe a banking or stock market job on Wall Street, so I can screw the American taxpayers out of their hard earned money. As long as the morons in Washington allow offshore engineers from all over the world to take our jobs, I wouldn't tell anyone to be an engineer.
Engineers 1/9/2009 11:48:00 AM I have read all these comments and there are a lot of really valid points, but we are talking about 8-17 year old kids here. Most of them don't even know what an engineer does. I have been a aircraft structures engineer for 22 years and to be truthful, I did not know what an engineer did when I was in high school. I remember as a sophomore in high school I wanted to play college baseball and then become a coroner like "Quincy" on TV. Once I stopped dreaming and reality set in, I realized I would pick a career that suited my strengths. I started as a math major in college and my Dad (God bless him) encouraged me to try engineering because of my strengths in math and science. While there have been ups and downs in my career, I am thankful for the engineering career I have, I have no regrets. You are living in a dream land if you think you can pick a career that is recession proof or layoff proof, unless you want to become a US senator.
Do ANYTHING but Engineering 1/9/2009 11:57:00 AM I wish someone had slapped me up side the head when I declared I wanted to become a Mechanical Engineer. My salary has been stagnant for 10 years, if I can find work. The companies get sold and move out of state or the country. Sales sells stuff that can’t be made and management over schedules your time, then the shop floor screws up the manufacturing. Engineering gets blamed for it all and gets paid less than most everyone else. No thank you. My 15 year old son once told me he wanted to be an engineer and I told him he would be crazy to follow in my footsteps. Engineers are the most stressed / underpaid occupation.
Being an engineer is not a career anymore 1/9/2009 12:19:00 PM In the Northeast, being an engineer is being someone who always worries about layoffs and outsourcing. Yes, there are jobs for contracts and short term stuff but don't get to comfortable in any one place. Career in one place...forget it.
US in trouble ?? 1/9/2009 1:11:00 PM How many engineers and scientists ruined US economy and got huge bonuses for doing so? Are there any? Are you surprised about the mess this country is in, knowing that 80 % of Congress are lawyers ? Engineering is very ethical profession and that doesn’t have much value, in the US. Look at US companies CEOs, how many have advanced engineering degrees and compare it with Germany and Japan.
this blog is better then the article 1/9/2009 2:57:00 PM great opinions noted here - ot's fun to read the discussion - nearly everyone has valid points ... can't add much new - so just a thank y'all!
The Problem Starts with Us Parents! 1/9/2009 3:02:00 PM If kids don't think engineering is a good career choice, I believe they are just being a mirror of their parents' minds. Frankly, I am saddened by this survey's results. I am a female chemical engineer with an MBA. I believe my educational choice was the BEST thing I ever did. Some of the comments made here indicate that people want their children to go into "recession" proof jobs or jobs with security. Well guys -- the grass isn't any greener and people are living in a fantasy if they think other professionals are all that much better. I have numerous family members who are medical doctors and today, they make less money than they did 10 years ago...and before you say it, let me add, as an "engineer", I make more money per year than they do. So please, stop proliferating the myth that engineering is bad career choice. And I believe it will be even MORE important for our kids generation to have MORE engineers than our generation for it's a result of engineering that new creations are born. And that's what drives the economy -- new products! Why is it that the rest of the world sends their kids to the United States to earn an education in engineering? The U.S. educates more students from India and China than we do from America in OUR own engineering universities. We should encourage our kids to go into engineering and perhaps limit the number of foreigners allowed into our engineering universities. This would likely de-celerate outsourcing. Just a thought...
Who says that kids don't know much? 1/9/2009 3:55:00 PM I have a history of being unemployed for years at a time. And by reading various industry/trade publications, I know that I am hardly alone. A kid would have to be terminally uninformed to seriously consider an engineering career.
National Security 1/9/2009 4:00:00 PM At the end of the day, the strength of our country is, unfortunately, based on the strength of our technology. The loss of engineering talent portends the decline of our technological strength. Our politicians and business leaders don't seem to understand this with the H-1B visas, etc. No one else seems to care. We engineers will be the only ones not surprised when this chicken comes homes to roost.
Kids say "no" to Engineering 1/9/2009 4:27:00 PM Like I have said for years, if it is important for you to get recognition for your work, make a huge salary with lots of perks, have opportunities for advancement, and have job security, then Engineering is not for you. However, if you get a great deal of satisfaction in solving problems and using your knowledge to create something that never existed before, Engineering is for you.
Engineering as a career 1/9/2009 5:19:00 PM Hopefully this comes as no surprise to anyone. While Hollywood continues to idolize professions like medicine and law, no one is idolizing the engineering profession on a large (media) scale. Most people enter fields like medicine and law due to the perceived value and the salaries that such occupations provide. Until the perceived value of engineering is raised by and to society, the salaries for engineers will remain at a level that aren't worth the effort.
Engineering - a great profession 1/9/2009 7:54:00 PM When I was a kid I was in the basement building gadgets. Now I get paid for it. What a great gig!!! I've worked for he same employer for 20 years. Never had to worry about getting laid off. I believe I'm respected by everyone I know. I'm saddened by so many of these comments.
Kids, They do keep up with the times. 1/10/2009 12:04:00 AM My daughter entered college to learn engineering, But now she would like to become a teacher. Just Maybe she can see what is really needed for their future.
Shortage of engineers is propaganda 1/10/2009 12:21:00 PM Shortage Studies THE 5 RELATED STUDIES... 1) The Urban Institute "Into the Eye of the Storm: Assessing the Evidence on Science and Engineering Education, Quality, and Workforce Demand" http://www.urban.org/publications/411562.html http://www.urban.org/UploadedPDF/411562_Salzman_Science.pdf http://tinyurl.com/37omtw the study… Nov 12, 2007 http://tinyurl.com/3yohn9 article… Dec 14, 2007 http://tinyurl.com/4ylpzr article… Dec 18, 2007 2) Duke University Study: There Is No Shortage of U.S. Engineers, April 4, 2007 http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,2111347,00.asp 3) The Sloan Foundation "Annual Report – Education and Careers in Science and Technology", 2006 http://www.sloan.org/report/2006/sciwork.shtml 4) The Rand Corporation "Is the Federal Government Facing a Shortage of Scientific… " http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB1505/index1.html http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/2005/RB1505.pdf 5) Harvard University / National Bureau for Economic Research "How and Why Government, Universities, and Industry Create Domestic Labor Shortages of Scientists and High-Tech Workers" http://www.nber.org/~peat/PapersFolder/Papers/SG/NSF.html and then the numbers are far worse. Over 600,000 science and engineering degrees are granted annually from American universities. (1) The US produces only 120,000 science and engineering jobs per year. (2) That leaves 480,000 graduates per year without jobs in their chosen careers. Add to this over 240,000 H-1B visas and an equal number of L-1 visas each year. Half a million Americans are losing their jobs to cheap foreign technical workers every year. Another half million Americans waste their S&E degrees on non-S&E jobs (Wal-Mart). SOURCES: (1) Tabulated by National Science Foundation/Division of Science Resources Statistics (NSF/SRS); data from Department of Education/National Center for Education Statistics: Integrated Postsecondary Education Data System Completions Survey and NSF/SRS: Survey of Earned Doctorates. http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d07/tables/dt07_267.asp (2) http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2004/02/art5full.pdf page 83 Some one ASC need to do some homework???
Corporations saying "no" to the future of America. 1/11/2009 3:27:00 PM It's not just engineering that has a problem. As an engineering company owner and contract P.E. (30+ years in mechanical engineering), I can say that the actions of many large U.S. owned companies (with the complete support of the political system) is to mortgage the country's future (the future of todays youth) for immediate gains, under the guise of productivity. I.E., America is leveraging itself out of its hard earned (much blood, sweat and tears) leading position on the world industrial/political stage. We are selling our future freedom to the lowest off-shore bidder.
I've got 15 years experience and I can't change careers fast enough..... 1/12/2009 11:29:00 AM Pathetic compensation, lousy or no bonuses, continuously wondering if I'm going to get laid off, I should have made the change years ago.... As bad as the financial industry has become, I'll take my chances.... I plan to get in on the next bailout and expect to get my bonus and spa trip..... I'm constantly told how bright I must be, when people find out I'm an engineer.... My reply is, "If I was so bright, I wouldn't be an engineer.... working for peanuts while execs were making ludicrous salaries on my sweat." My advice to everyone who asks about engineering is, don't let you kid become one; an engineering degree is a good degree to get on your way to an MBA but engineering is a dead end career.
Kids say "no" to Engineering 1/12/2009 11:46:00 AM My son wants to say "yes". My son applied to MIT as a perspective engineering student. His father is robotics/automation engineer (22 years) who like a lot of engineers are not fully appreciated nor compensated for the difficult tasks that he accomplishes. My son would like to be a robotics engineer like is father because he likes applying himself in this way but, I have been trying to steer him in another direction as I see how hard my husband works and would not encourage this life style for my son. However, my son is was committed to engineering and wanted to be like his father. He won the National Battle Bots tournament last year with a robot that he designed and scored a near perfect score on his SAT. Has taken 8 AP classes. Has also scored a perfect score on his Math subject tests exam and near perfect on his physics and Chemistry subject tests. His only dream in life is to become an engineer and to attend MIT. If there was such a decline in students wanting to be engineers then why did MIT say they have too many applicants this year and my son has been rejected from attending the best engineering school in the country? Talk about a turn-off...
"Future" shortage of engineers. 1/12/2009 4:16:00 PM There is obviously lots of blog from current or past engineers. I can remember the first newspaper article I read about a shortage of engineers (around 1963 or 1964). It seems that there is a rash of the articles about every every 8-10 years. What the writers mean, but will not say, is that there is a shortage of CHEAP engineers. Also, the articles from many years back talked about (as I remember) a current shortage of engineers. This article talks about a "future shortage". It seems like playing with the futures market is one reason our country is in the shape it's in now. Several writers here made the comment that engineers are second-class citizens. I have to agree. I once overheard a person tell one of my associates that "... any TV repair man can do what you do ..." Other writers mentioned the fact that US colleges and universities teach engineering to more middle-eastern, Asian, and Pacific rim students than to US citizens. If ASQ will just wait long enough, these foreign students will graduate, stay here in the US, and work for sub-standard salaries. Engineering shortage resolved!!!
What shortage? 1/12/2009 4:59:00 PM Every time an engineering job comes up, they are overwhelmed by the sheer volume of applications they receive. For every job they post, they get 10,000 or more applicants. I dont see where there is a shortage of engineers - there is a shortage of jobs for engineers instead - a severe one! Most engineers that I know have been unemployed for several years and cant land a job at all because of the competition - and many positions are filled by H1B applicants, or they re-spec the job and outsource it overseas!
Cry babies 1/13/2009 7:11:00 AM Wow, let's have a pity party. With the exception of a few, what a bunch of whiners. If you wanted to be a rock star you certainly did take the wrong career path. I understand wanting more, but I can't stand all these comments from these poor engineers. If things are so bad get off your behind and make something happen. If you're not willing to do that, then you better come to peace with the fact that you will have to work for a living. Really, it's not so bad, just try it. You'll live, although in the case of a few of these pansies that may be a stretch.
BINGO! 1/13/2009 11:03:00 AM This comment from "The Problem Starts With Us Parents!" has this golden nugget of truth within it; "The U.S. educates more students from India and China than we do from America in OUR own engineering universities. We should encourage our kids to go into engineering and perhaps limit the number of foreigners allowed into our engineering universities. This would likely de-celerate outsourcing. Just a thought... ". The source of our problem starts within the ivory halls of academia. The tuition for a foreign national student to attend a US college is typically 3X that of an in-state student, while the cost of providing that foreign student with the identical education is no more than that of the in-state student. The bean counters at the colleges are not oblivious to this. How many of us have made application to a university, easily passed the academic requirements, paid state income taxes that are used in part to support the state colleges, and then been turned away because there was no “slot” available for us to occupy? I know that I have; twice. We may very well have a shortage of US engineers, but it is a construct from the greedy bean counters in academia. Our mantra should be “US citizens first”, and we should have a “No US citizen left out” program for academia.
Kid aren't ready for Engineering Career 1/13/2009 5:51:00 PM While many of you have valid points, and it's been great fun reading all the comments, don't forget, many of the kids these days want to earn the money the easiest way possible - why do all the hard work like more school. While I've been an Engineer for quite some time, and it's taken a lot of effort, it's something my son doesn't want to do. Here's a reality check on current society. Instead of buying a guitar and learning to play the hard way, kids are snapping up "Rock Band 2" for instant gratification to the tune of 22 million copies since 2005. Hey - why study hard playing the real thing when you can get the game and learn 'instant' guitar. How many truly think today's kids are even capable of getting an engineering degree when many have sub-functional skills in reading, writing, and mathmatics? Most of the kids these days have no idea what an 'engineer' is, in all the various forms, let alone know how to get there.
Pointer to survey data ? 1/14/2009 4:19:00 PM Folks.. can anyone point me to the Harris poll this article refers to ? I can only find a poll done about 8 years ago. I'm eager to see this new data. Thanks !
The notorious engineering shortage 1/15/2009 12:52:00 AM I've worked for 30 years now and the only 2 times I think there was an engineering shortage was in the late 70s and mid 90s when the US had technology booms. It's a hard career and a lot of smart people can't do engineering. You have to learn a lot and be very persistant to do most design work. I am fortunant to be high on the salary ladder but I had a lot of setbacks along the way. This is not a stable life at all.
engineering shortage 1/15/2009 11:52:00 AM The shortage is nor only for engineers, but also for scientists. I am retiring after 40 years as a bench chemist and am trying to help my employer find my replacement. The people we have talked to are not interested in technical careers, they all want to be managers. Technical careers need to be made as lucrative as managerial careers.
No shortage of 3rd world engineers 1/15/2009 8:31:00 PM I have spent 23 years in engineering and raised 3 kids who are all top students in all subjects -- especially math & science. They have little interest in an engineering career and honestly, I would discourage it if they did -- unless they are willing to move to China or India and work for peanuts.
The source of this topic... 1/19/2009 3:31:00 PM To the person who posted on the 14th. The survey was done through the Harris Interactive Poll so it's not visible with normal Web searches. ASQ posted this information on their website recently: Real World of Engineering Webinar Coming Soon A projected shortage of 70,000 engineers by 2010 is troubling enough. Pair that with a new ASQ/Harris Interactive survey that shows 85% of kids don’t want to enter the engineering field, and this creates a big problem for manufacturers. In an effort to change this trend, ASQ will host a webinar to show kids and parents the “Real World of Engineering.” Check back soon for more information.
Engineering Future 1/21/2009 5:09:00 PM There is very little financial incentive for students to study engineering since the pay scale has decreased drastically over the years since I graduated from Texas A&M BSME in 1960. In 1960, the bottom quarter of the graduating engineers started at double the starting pay of the top quarter of the Law School Graduates. Now these starting pay scales are reversed. I believe that most college students today want to study business and/or economics and then become Enron type Master Criminals, similar to some of the other extremely wealthy master criminals of today who are seldom ever detected, and almost never convicted. The science and engineering pay scales have eroded primarily due to the import of foreign engineers who will work for just slightly above minimum wages for a H1B Visa and a Green Card. The foreign educated engineers might only be partially as productive as US educated engineers, but they are willing to work for only 10% or 20% of the pay that US educated engineers are paid (or used to be paid) then it is much more economically effective to employ foreign educated engineers when compared to employing U.S. educated engineers, except for the additional liability of their design failures.
Well... 2/6/2009 1:48:00 AM Someone tell me, how many students interviewed had a chance to participate in FRC (FIRST [for inspiration and recognition of science and technology] Robotics Competition) Events? Any FIRSTer would love to be an engineer, I'm sure.
Despite the claim of a shortage 2/25/2009 2:41:00 AM If there is such a shortage of graduate engineers why are the vast majority of recruiters completely disinterested in placing new grads? For that matter, there are easily about 200 qualified applicants for most engineering positions. There is no shortage, nor will there ever be a shortage. Plus engineers are not considered valuable assets of a company. They're fired in droves or outsourced constantly. Maybe high school kids have more insight than you give them credit for having.
The demand must be overseas 3/4/2009 8:16:00 AM I'm personally an engineer with 30 years experience and run an engineering division. I don't buy this demand statement. All I hear is that jobs are being outsourced overseas and I'm constantly contacted by firms with offices in the US and headquarters in the middle east trying to solicit work. Even if you look at our economy, we DO NOT design anymore. The US is a company,that at most, assembles. Most of the engineering talent, the true machine designers are dying out and not passing that skillset on to the younger generation, i.e. the "art of engineering" vs. the "theory of engineering" which you receive in a formal degree program. My daughter is currently a senior in college. When she was in high school we had a conversation about her career path. She stated that she wanted to enroll in an engineering program. I bluntly stated "over my dead body". She currently is majoring in accounting and I'm glad she is. From my seat, and from my day to day business dealings, the career of engineering is dying in the US. About the only engineer in demand these days are civil, structural and environmental engineers.
Engineering, why bother. 6/26/2009 5:44:00 PM There are very few jobs in the engineering fields. I would encourage anybody looking for a decent career to become a police officer, fire fighter, or government worker. Get in a union and use your organizations voting power to get stimulus from the government. At some point the country will be bankrupt but you'll get further and last longer as something other than an engineer.
Outsourced here 6/28/2009 1:05:00 AM I am an older engineer. Frankly, I would not recommend engineering as a career unless you are in a defense industry that cannot be outsourced. I am now looking for a job in Houston. I have interviewed at several companies. Basically, my job opportunities are to "babysit" Indian engineers hired to do PLC programming. They are not capable of writing functional specs, communicating with customers, or any real design work. Every company I have seen has all the entry levels filled with Indians or Pakistanis on H1B or L1 Visas. I asked the engineering manager why they didn't hire young engineers out of US colleges and he said, "sure, but will they work for $16/hr?". Not a good career. I certainly would not spend the money going to college to get a $16/hr job.
be an Engineer, Why 7/3/2009 5:31:00 PM I went from high school into welding, fabrication assembly work. The company was patient while I learned to read blueprints. I developed the ability to look at the job and build it against the established procedures, the more seasoned guys mentioned many times that they never built it the way I did, it was efficient and well within tolerances. I have the received the respect and recognition to be awarded new jobs from engineering, "Here, do this, develop the procedure as you go, we don't know how to do this." In due time, I got bored, I wanted more, wanted to do more. Went to school nights for my AS and BS, got my title of Engineer, in electronics within the computer industry for nearly 20 years. I had a recruiter tell me last week, "If you haven't used it in the last few years, you won't even get looked at." I had fun while in engineering, finding out how things worked, making things work. I feel like a Studebaker left out in a field to rust instead of a stallion ready to conquer the world. For those with continued employment in their engineering discipline, congrats, wish you the best! and for those contemplating engineering, Why would you want to be an Engineer? Could I be employed by one of those 3rd world countries, after all it is only a short commute, half way around the world! $15/hr would not cover the bills. We all need jobs.
Engineering is obsolete in the U.S. 7/3/2009 6:57:00 PM I'm a 24-year engineer who has somehow survived numerous layoffs and the exodus of U.S. engineering careers to 3rd world countries. I have 3 teens who are all top students with a great love of math & science. One actually wants to be an engineer. I don't discourage her, but caution her that it's not what it used to be, and that to really succeed, she must be 5 times more productive than her 3rd world counterparts. So far I have managed to do that, but eventually 3rd world engineering productivity will match ours. In my career, I first witnessed the outsourcing of manufacturing, which was not unexpected. More recently I have witnessed the outsourcing of design and IP creation, which WAS unexpected. It saddens me that not only do our nation's corporations not want to build anything at home anymore, they don't even want to create anything here anymore -- just manage those processes from afar. Encourage your kids to go to business school. There is no future for math, science and technology skills in the U.S.
Employment 7/6/2009 9:30:00 AM US Graduates 300,000 laywers a year lawyer pay 300 an hour and you need an laywer to defend against a lawyer US Graduates 70,000 engineers at mayber $20.00 an hour to start, which would you want to be.
Engineering Shortage 7/6/2009 10:45:00 AM If there is a shortage why is my compnay laying off engineers all around me and why is my daughter having a difficult time finding a co-op or internship in college. I just suggested that she switch from bio-mechanical engineering to health science
Engineer friend 7/6/2009 11:14:00 AM I have a friend who is an engineer. He is finishing his career until he retires working in an Ace Hardware store. Enough said.
it's time 7/6/2009 11:30:00 AM First off, it's time to get the abundance of MBA's out of corporate America. That's half the problem. The other is to quit whining about everything going off-shore and doing something about it. I strive everyday in my job to keep manufacturing within the borders of this country. Wages and salaries are going to have to come in-line with the new world order. Sure, everyone wants to make a good living, me included, but some jobs pay way more than what the should and union jobs often times don't make you work hard enough. It's time to throw the idiots off Capital Hill and vote out the lawyers that call themselves politicians. We need buiness men/women to run this country. Until America wakes up and realizes this fact, we're not going to see a turn around.
Kids say no to engineering 7/6/2009 11:45:00 AM Companies talk about the shortage of engineers in the future yet as soon as business hits a downterm, they start laying off people left and right. Salaries and also a lot higher in other fields such as finance and kids recognize that. I'm not saying pay is bad for engineering but there are lots of other areas where you can make a lot more money. As others have said, I think at least some of the companies concerns with an engineering shortage is to keep the supply up and the price down.
the S.O.S.... (same old sht) 7/6/2009 12:14:00 PM every year, some "research" outfit cries wolf about an engineering shortage... as much hot air is wasted on the "same old sht" "is there any value in obtaining your PE?" ha!. Organizations give lip service only to the engineering profession. No wonder so many have left and ACTUALLY ARE leaving the profession in droves. A conversation I had with some budding managers perfectly encapsulated the disdain for the "problem solvers" in a company.... the manager said - with much disdain - "so-and-so won't become a leader like me, since he is always mired in the details". We are doomed when most people in the workforce simply want to "rise above the details" and manage (aka wag-your-finger-at-others).
This article misses the point completely 7/6/2009 2:24:00 PM Our society does not value engineering, and students can see that. The market signals are crystal clear to students considering careers. Who would take on $40,000 in student loans to enter a field with very poor job security, where they will compete in a labor market with 700,000 H-1B workers who are taking mostly entry-level jobs and suppressing wages generally? Engineering jobs go with manufacturing, which is withering away as fraction of American industry. Go sell that as a career.
Engineers deserves to be treated like a Doctor, Lawyer, or Pastor 7/6/2009 4:56:00 PM I'm an Engineer for 20 years. How nice would it be if my 4 kids will take up Engineering so that they will be molded to think like an Engineer. It is nice to share one's talent but perpetual exploitation of Engineers are such a big waste and loss but a huge profit for employers and management who takes all the credits. I will encourage or enforce my kids to become Doctors, Lawyers, or Accountants and not a very stressful Engineerng course with very low ROI.
STEM Grad Shortage only True In View of Potential for Self Fulfilling Prophecy 11/10/2009 10:43:00 PM There is a mismatch between skills and actual job openings, that much I will agree is "real". But the supposed science, engineering and high-tech shortage is artificial, not genuine for the following reasons: 1. Businesses generally want to hire people with 5+ years worth of experience, and this is particularly so in an employer's market (Recession). This precludes young grads with no prior experience from gaining the necessary on-the-job training, thereby inhibiting them from moving into the very high-demand fields. The shortage is artificial in the sense that it is created, in part, by employers unwilling to hire US workers. 2. It is a well-known fact that many people do not work in the same field they studied in college. This reality will only accelerate as jobs are insourced using H-1B visa workers and the like. American citizens who are newly trained or graduated but lack the experience to get in on the ground floor often walk away, taking whatever it is that they can get. When they are discouraged by the fact that their costly educations amount to little more than insecure job prospects it further drives off the possibility that they will train in or remain in STEM fields. The shortage may one day be real, but only in the sense of a self-fulfilling prophecy caused by the perception that US employers don't want US-born grads. 3. Technology, particularly in the IT industry, is moving much faster than the curriculum for schools can possibly keep pace with. It looks as if this will only get worse, not better with increasing time and complexity. Expecting schools to replace on-the-job training is unrealistic. Similarly, not every set of job skills is published in the form of a book you can simply pick up from a bookstore or library, either. It's not possible to keep up with the demands of being "smart" — self-educated — if publishers and universities alike are late to the table. This comes full circle back to the reality that the best way to stay current is to be where the action is, and that takes landing at the right company making the right investments into the latest cutting-edge technology. Not every business needs or demands the same technologies, however, so the spinoffs are potentially limitless. Rather than to be a good generalist, IT is increasingly about specialization, knowing full well that a game changing innovation may make that niche obsolete overnight. Eventually this merry-go-round will spin so fast that even a savant will not be able to keep up. We will eventually reach an upper ceiling and it will take artificial intelligence to maintain the computer systems upon which we are increasingly dependent. 4. Why are media reports constantly in dispute of multiple independent studies on the so-called STEM shortage by Yale, Georgetown, Rutgers, Alfred P. Sloan Foundation, The Urban Institute and scores of others? Their findings are this pseudo shortage are NOT wrong. The problem is that by the time someone graduates their training is already on the way to obsolescence. It's not that we don't have enough high-tech grads but that too few employers want to invest in new hires or old talent that needs to be brought up to date. An education was supposed to prove that you were TEACHABLE, not omniscient. 5. The fallacy of America's competitive disadvantage is, ironically, promoted by an illiterate concept of the numbers: First off, we are not losing our competitive edge to other countries. We still rank in the top 2. Rather, those other countries, who were light years behind us, are catching up. It will be a long time before they surpass us as most of those emerging economies are industrializing vs. innovating. Innovating is still the domain of the US and other First World nations. Moreover, relative to our comparatively small population we have enough grads. If we didn't STEM salaries would be on the increase, not decrease. People who argue that we have a shortage of competitive US grads are engaging in the fallacy in comparing the US to STEM grad rates in high-population countries such as China and India. If India produces, say, 600,000 engineering grads per year, what percentage of their actual workforce does that constitute relative to the number of engineering grads in the US relative to our own population? That's the more intelligent question. Similarly, the likelihood that a foreign student's STEM curriculum would be any better than our own is also suspect, particularly in view of the fact that many foreign workers on visas are US educated (therefore at the same general talent level as our own grads attending the same institutions). These foreign recruits aren't in a better position than our grads — they just come cheaper than they do! Follow the money. It never lies.
Data-based decision 12/11/2009 2:44:00 PM The bureau of labor and statistics will show that the projection for the next 10 years is lower than market growth for many engineering disciplines, mostly the lower paid fields: http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos027.htm

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