Automotive Battery Breakthroughs Predicted

SAN JOSE, Calif. (AP) -- The lithium-ion battery, already a fixture in personal electronic devices, soon will become the answer to high oil prices and environmental concerns as it bulks up to power rechargeable electric vehicles, government, university and industry panelists predicted Monday.

But although the technology shows great promise, battery makers worldwide still are grappling with high costs, the impact of charging and depletion on battery life, keeping the batteries cool and other issues, according to panelists at the Plug-In 2008 conference in San Jose.

Tien Duong, who works in emerging battery technology with the U.S. Department of Energy, told the group he believes lithium-ion batteries are ready to start displacing the nickel-metal-hydride batteries now used in many hybrid gas-electric vehicles.

Hybrids are powered by electric and internal combustion engines, while plug-ins operate exclusively on electricity. They can be charged by plugging them into a conventional home outlet, but they also carry a small conventional motor to recharge the batteries and extend their range. Plug-ins generally can get up to 100 miles per gallon of gasoline.

Panelists said lithium-ion batteries are better suited for plug-ins because they have more storage capacity, cost less and are smaller and more reliable than nickel-metal-hydride powerpacks.

Lithium-ion shows promise in giving cars a range of 40 miles per charge, said Haresh Kamath, energy storage project manager for the Electric Power Research Institute, one of the conference sponsors.

"The target is 40 miles, and we don't think we can do that with nickel-metal-hydride," he said in an interview. "Lithium-ion, it's a lot more likely to get there."

Still, the lithium-ion battery packs needed to power even a small car now cost in excess of $10,000, said Kamath.

Duong said battery costs will have to be cut by at least half to make the cars cost-effective, but Fritz Kalhammer, an independent consultant in energy technology, said there's reason for optimism on the cost side because of high gasoline prices.

"The batteries cost less than the fuel cost savings they enable," he said.

Panelists also said the larger battery packs now being tested in plug-ins will drop in price as more are produced, just like consumer electronics batteries.

Automakers such as Toyota Motor Corp., General Motors Corp. are rushing to bring plug-ins to market as high gasoline prices have severely cut into U.S. auto sales. GM is developing an extended-range plug-in electric vehicle called the Chevrolet Volt, which it hopes to launch in 2010, and Toyota says it will bring out a plug-in hybrid with lithium-ion batteries by 2010 that it will target toward leasing customers.

Kamath said in an interview that although there are obstacles, it's possible automakers will be able to keep their promises.

"We've seen some pretty amazing things come to light in the last few years in terms of technology," he said. "And it's not impossible that something like this happens. Whether it actually does happen, that remains to be seen."

Also in the mix of challenges is the impact of temperature extremes on battery life. As temperatures drop, for instance, so does battery performance, the panelists said.

Removing heat from the center of battery cells also is made difficult when the batteries are made large enough to power a car, they said.

There's also the problem with overheating that can cause fires, but Kamath said there have been only a few incidents out of the millions of lithium-ion batteries now in use in laptop computers and other devices.

He is confident the industry will overcome any safety issues.

"They have to be identified and they have to be mitigated in some way," he said. "That's going to be done through controls and through just an understanding of the technology. Those are the issues that were working through right now."

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Hello, electric cars are not the answer. 7/22/2008 3:42:00 PM Sorry to burst the electric car people's bubble but this is no the answer. You are no gaining any independence. You will be trading dependense on foreign oil to dependense on foreign made batteries. Plus you will have the huge environmental impact from the batteries. The only way electric cars even stand a remote chance is if they can get recharge times down to 10 minutes (or less) and increase the range to a minimum of 400 miles. People, you are barking up the wrong tree. The answer is Hydrogen. The energy companies won't stand for it because you can power your heating/cooling units at your house with it plus the government won't allow what it can not tax/control.
where do you get hydrogen? 7/22/2008 4:45:00 PM And how do you obtain large amounts of hydrogen? I only know of two ways: 1)use a catalyst to decompose natural gas or other hyrocarbons, or 2) use electricity to break down water. Method 1 still requires petrochemicals of some kind, and method 2 only "stores" energy, it does not "create" it. You don't get back any more energy by burning the hydrogen than it took to create it from the water. Now, maybe it is more efficient to carry the electical energy around in cars in the form of hydrogen rather than in the form of batteries, but you are still ultimately using electricity. If you know of some other way to generate great quantities of hydrogen, please enlighten us.
car power 7/22/2008 6:34:00 PM The possibility of using 4500 psi compressed air as a car fuel showns great promise and is far superior to using gas, or batteries. Check out www.engineair.au for a fantastic air Wankel type air motor.
US electric power crunch in about 2012 7/22/2008 6:41:00 PM Some electric utilities express concern they cannot handle the load of PHEVs. Electric demand appears to exceed supply in about 2012 in the US. http://www.prosefights.org/pnmelectric/pnmelectric.htm
Hello, Electric Cars ARE the answer 7/22/2008 6:44:00 PM OMG, I can't believe I'm wasting time answering this dumb comment... There is no distribution system for Hydrogen. The distribution system for electricity is ubiquitous. Thanks to Nicola Tesla, distributing electricity is cheap and efficient. Hydrogen takes a lot of energy to produce and compress and store and distribute. Electricity can be produced many ways today, and as new generation technology becomes available everything will still run on it. Who says we can't make batteries in America??? What makes anybody think the government wouldn't tax hydrogen fuel? My gas car has a range of 210 miles (2001 olds alero); why does an electric need to be 400? Why does charging need to take only 10 minutes? The vast majority of my driving wouldn't completely discharge the battery and an overnight or at work charge time would be no problem. For longer range, hybrid technology seems to working just fine. You'll be pipe dreaming about hydrogen 20 years from now while we're all driving plug-in hybrids with lithium batteries (long term electric storage) combined with super capacitors (short term electric storage).
NUCLEAR FUSION 7/22/2008 6:56:00 PM The two previous comments have valid points. The 'electric car' with batteries is an intermediate step away from an ICE (internal cumbustion engine). While Hydrogen may be the ultimate energy carrier it currently has several limitations some psychological, some technical but having the other systems in place such as motor, regenerative brakes, efficent heater / AC etc. will help pave the way. Battery electrics can do that. As for where all this Hydrogen will come from thats the easy part. Nuclear fusion can generate all the heat and electricity you will ever need to produce hydrogen from water. For too long americans have had the luxury of not in my back yard and there is some psychological stigma to a nuclear power plant. However some would be suprised to learn that there may be a facility in your back yard more dangerous then a nuclear power plant. A rail line comes to mind. and $300+/barrel oil can do alot to change one's mind/ :) Jimmy Carter had it right, my parents generation just decided not to listen :(
Batteries vs Hydrogen 7/22/2008 7:32:00 PM I'll take Lithium Ion batteries over fuels cells. I worked in the fuel cell industry but unfortunately, there is no way to make renewable hydrogen widely available. There are American companies working on Lithium Ion batteries. Some of the work might end up being done in Mexico but the technology knowledgebase will be in the USA.
where do you get hydrogen? 7/22/2008 7:48:00 PM The real answer is that you combine hydrogen and the battery. For the first 40 miles, you use the battery as it gives the equivalent of $0.72/GGE (GGE=gallon_gasoline_equiv): $0.08/kwH * 1kWh/3.6MJ * 121MJ/gal_gasoline * 20%_eff_battery/75%_eff_gasoline= $0.72. Once the battery is exhausted, you use the H2 which you make from electricity during the night: $0.08/3.6MJ * 121MJ / (electrolysis= 0.9 * 0.85) / (compression_10kpsi= 0.85)= $4.14/GGE. The energy comes from the electric company, which gets it from nuclear power, solar, and wind. Thus, energy indepence. For the doubters, ask how much they're paying at the pump right now for gasoline. SCS
Hydrogen producing bacteria 7/22/2008 7:55:00 PM another alternative: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080129170709.htm
what about liquid lithium 7/22/2008 10:31:00 PM There must be some way to circulate the electrolytes and remove excess heat with a radiator. That may give us the range that "Hello" wants and create a new industry changing and recyling the fluids.
Electric cars are ONE of the answers and part of our future! 7/22/2008 10:57:00 PM About 6 weeks ago Toshiba announced a lithium ion battery under development that will recharge to 90% of its capacity in 5 minutes, the approximate time it takes to fill a tank of gas. This will not be commercially available for 3 years but is on the horizon as are improvements for increased storage capacity translating to more miles traveled per charge. The infrastructure to support such a vehicle is simple with existing gas stations adding 'electricity' pumps, once these batteries are commercially available. The infrastructure to develop and support hydrogen (which uses large qunatities of electricity by the way)will cost 10's of billions of dollars. Lithium batteries can be recycled and electricity production can be gradually shifted to wind, solar, nuclear and clean burning coal with carbon sequestration. Technology will drag us forward despite the naysayers.
infrastructure 7/22/2008 11:02:00 PM The cited problems are legitimate. An inductive power coupling road network to power cars in transit for long distances, like a rail-less train, is more likely to bond with short-range autonomous electric motive capability when driving off the infrastructure power "grid" on the highways.
Hydrogen 7/23/2008 8:02:00 AM Simple. You use method #2 and you get the electric power from nuke plants. We need to be building new nukes by the dozens. A large (1000 MW) nuke plant running at close to 100% capacity is the cheapest, most efficient way we have of producing large amounts electrical energy. When demand on the grid is lower, you keep them running at 100% and use the excess power to crack water into hydrogen.
Automotive battery breakthroughs 7/23/2008 8:04:00 AM So how are electric vehicles any better than IC powered vehicles? You still have to generate electricity and the efficiencies of most power plants is not that good! Take that times the thermal efficiency of an electric motor, add in transmission and distribution losses plus battery efficiency and you are not any more effiecient than an IC engine. Additionally, what about a heater in the winter, AC in the summer, power steering, and a 360 Watt sound system?????
Hydrogen 7/23/2008 8:23:00 AM Hydrogen is the solution. I have to agree with the comment about the batteries. Hydrogen burn cleaner than oil derivates, it needs some more development such as the "supply on demmand" but once it is solved, that's the solution.
New Batteries Worse than Old EV-1 7/23/2008 8:30:00 AM 40 Miles per charge on lithium ion!!! That's absurd!!! Years ago the EV-1 would go over 100 Miles on Nickel Metal Hydride batteries. I'm sorry but I don't consider worse performance to be a battery breakththrough. If a breakthrough is what is needed look to the Ultra capacitor power storage that EESTOR is working on. That's a breakthrough, if it makes it to market! No charge/discharge constraints, about twice the storage of Lithium.....
Electric Cars 7/23/2008 8:38:00 AM They are trying to get 40 miles before a recharge ???? Who would what a car like that? We have an abundance of natural gas in this country, why not use it?
Every alternative uses electricity 7/23/2008 8:50:00 AM Hate to break it to the great thinkers of our society but if electric cars take off the electric system won't be able to handle all the short-term high amperage recharging. The typical transformer at a house is sized for the load. The high voltage wires to that transformer is sized to the area loads. The substation feeding that line is sized to the area. The line feeding that substation is sized for the area. The electric production is sized for the area. The next crisis will be the electric system melting down and everyone will be standing there with their electric cords in their hands.
Let's Unspoil America 7/23/2008 9:53:00 AM 40 miles per charge is fine. If you need to go further, take the train. Trains can be nuclear powered just like in France.
Electric Car: 5 minute charge, 250 mile range 7/23/2008 10:16:00 AM That's what EEStor technology makes possible. Check out all the info on EEStor at http://bariumtitanate.blogspot.com
5 Minute Charge 7/23/2008 10:34:00 AM The 5 Minute Charge is BS. As someone else pointed out, the short term current load would be too high.
Plug in electric cars 7/23/2008 10:35:00 AM If you charge your car during the night you will be able to do this without having to redesign the grid. I am looking at 100 to 200 miles for a lithium-ion battery pack. Look at the "Tesla Sport Car." You need to inform yourself before making any comments.
Plugin hybrid basics 7/23/2008 10:45:00 AM From the comments there is much confusion about basic concepts. A plug in hybrid which goes only 40 miles before the backup gasoline powered generator kicks in will go up to 14600 miles per year using zero gasoline. For most people significant gasoline use will occur only on long trips out of town. If you look at the numbers, overnight charging of 40 mile batteries uses cheap off peak electricity and imposes no significant burden on the power system. The result is that we drive mostly on nuclear power and oil imports for cars disappear. All that is missing is a suitable 40 mile battery and a decade of automobile manufacturing to make the transition.
Where da Train 7/23/2008 11:26:00 AM In the South where I live there are no commuter trains or busses. Our goverments have pretty much ignored the idea of public transprotation unlike in Europe -- 40 Miles between charges is crazy for electric cars, they could do better than that 75 years ago.
Electric Cars 7/23/2008 2:00:00 PM The biggest concern with plug in hybrids/electric cars is where will the electricity come from. The simplest solution is a distributed power generator system using a combination of Solar cell covered roofs, wind turbines, natural gas powered home power stations etc. Not only would these generate the extra power needed for the cars, the distributed nature of the generation would virtually eliminate blackouts and greatly reduce vulnerability to terrorist attacks on power facilities. Part of the cost could be offset by the power companies loaning homeowners the money to install the power units and taking excess electricity onto the grid as credit on loan payoff.
40 miles is plenty for a plug in hybrid 7/23/2008 2:30:00 PM 90% of the driving is under 40 miles a day and the fuel powered part will take over for range beyond 40 miles. By the way, even a 30 year old power plant plus the transmission losses plus battery inefficiency plus motor efficiency is still more efficient than the most efficient automotive engine. And available batteries are far more efficient than even the theoretical best electrolyzer and fuel cell. Air cars are horribly inefficient too when you include even a theoretically perfect compressor. Plug in hybrids and non-fossil fueled (solar, bio, nuke, hydro, wind, fusion etc.) electric power plants is the only real long term solution.
5 Min charge 7/23/2008 3:49:00 PM They are working on a system that uses large capacitors buried underground to slow charge and then dump the charge into a car battery in 5 mins. The problem is that the construction of lithium batteries of today cannot take the large current load it would take to charge them fully in 5 mins. I have read that the nano-tube issue with lithium batteries has been solved and a new generation of extreamly high charge rate litium battery id being tested right now. The electric car is the only choice we have right now because of the delivery systems for hydrogen is not in place and cannot be in place any time soon. We can generate electricity in many renuable ways (wind,solar,hydro) so we can suppliment the demand created by electric cars. You can put as many batteries in a car as need to go 400miles or 40miles. The research says that over 80% of drivers drive less that 40miles back and forth to work. This is what the Volt is targeting. It wont replace the ICE it will just give americans the choice to drive back and forth to work using renuable energy and thus relieve our dependance on soring gas prices. We as americans are going in the right direction. Just save your money and go electric as soon as you can...
still waiting 7/23/2008 6:29:00 PM I'm still waiting for the first poster to tell us how to get hydrogen, especially hydrogen that the gov't can't tax or control. My HOA won't let me build a nuclear plant in the back yard... On the hybrid topic, anytime I need to go more than 40 miles, I usually need lots of luggage too. How about mounting the motor/generator in a trailer with additional cargo space, and I only lug it along when I need it? Daily commuting uses only batteries, and needs little/no luggage space. That way I'm not hauling a 300+ lb motor/generator set back and forth to work every day.
Nukes and hippies 7/23/2008 7:25:00 PM Yep we need more nuke energy for sure since the hippies and al gores wont let us burn coal anymore for electricity. Wind and solar are nice when the wind blows and sun is out lol. Than we can use nat gas for transport along with electrics. No more dirty bearded sheiks with $100 billion to murder us with. One note with H2 - sierra club, nrdc hippies et al wont let anyone even think about using water as an energy resource even if it was technically and economically feasible. The whole H2 thing is a fantasy. Solution is to use what we got - nukes, coal, wind and sun for electricity and nat gas for transport. And send the damn al gores and hippie freaks to the nation of Chad where they can live independent of resources and not leave any carbon footprint.
The Future is Electric 7/23/2008 8:12:00 PM Unlike oil, LiIon batteries can be made anywhere, even here. The nations with the richest Lithium ores are friendly, and Lithium can be extracted from seawater at reasonable costs if necessary. 10 minute recharging has been done, battery swapping systems are being developed, and even "powered roadways" for unlimited range are possible. A 40 mile range is enough for 90% of all trips, and adding a small gas engine for 300 more miles will be enough for any road trip. Battery breakthroughs now in the lab promise 5 to 10x more capacity, meaning 800 to 1,000 mile per charge EVs may soon be possible. Hydrogen is bulky, to store enough requires expensive 10,000 psi pressure tanks or ultracold cryogenic flasks, at a higher cost than a LiIon battery pack! Worse, H2 fuel cells require expensive platinum, automotive fuel cells start at a quarter million dollars each. If H2 is made by electrolysis, it would require 3x more electricity than the equivalent battery electric car. Electricity can be made from a variety of sources, some are renewable. Since most plug-in recharging will be at night when electric demand is lowest, it won't unduly strain the power grid. The amount of electricity used by a refinery to make 1 gallon of gas will power an EV about as far as that gallon of gas will drive a typical SUV!
Look at Norway 7/24/2008 1:30:00 PM Norway is currently developing hydrogen infrastructure with off the shelf industrial equipment. There are also cars that can run both gas and hydrogen (changes compression ratios and firing times) so a electric/gas/hydrogen car is not only possible today, but would give you the biggest flexability as the switchover happens. I just hope we don't get short cited when oil gets cheaper that we move away from this revolution towards oil independance.
Just burn the fuel more efficiently 7/24/2008 2:47:00 PM "By the way, even a 30 year old power plant plus the transmission losses plus battery inefficiency plus motor efficiency is still more efficient than the most efficient automotive engine." Huh?? What fantasy world do YOU live in?!?! I owned a 1987 Ford Escort with a 2.0l Mazda diesel that got 60mpg! Just increase the efficiencies, stop the government from limiting diesel engines and we'll be fine. Electric is NOT the answer!
No Shortage of Comments 7/25/2008 8:33:00 AM Seems like there's as many opinions as there are options. Wee need to keep in mind the two main goals when considering which alternative to imported oil do we use: Will the funds used to purchase the 'fuel' stay in America, and what effect will this alternative have on greenhouse gases? If we can stay focused on reliably answering those two questions, then all options remain open. As far as range is considered, daily work commutes are limited and should not be a major constraint. Why not consider the possibility of a work/commuter car for daily use, and a second car for family or long-haul trips? Seriously, I split a gut when I see suburban Mom loading three bags of groceries into the back of her Envoy. What a waste! 12 MPG for a cantalope and a dozen eggs. Sheesh! The arguements seen here reflect the typical American's reluctance to tighten his or her belt and make a sacrifice to do the right thing. If any of the readers or commentors spent any time in Europe or Asia driving around, they'd be floored. We have it so good it, but sadly, we've all gotten fat and lazy and it's time to give up 'luxury' for what's really 'necessary'.
The right thing 7/25/2008 4:43:00 PM certainly is not cutting off domestic energy supplies in the name of so-called global warming on the advice of charlatans like al gore and the other chicken littles out there. Sure people spend too much on foolishness and nonsense in this country but telling people to take their medicine in high energy prices as some kind of modern 'green sin tax' is hardly a solution. Unless you want to keep sending ungodly amounts of cash to the arab billionaire jawas with their $10k gucci robes and blow up camel dolls. Tightening the belt and using less is surely wise and logical though at some point you cant conserve what you dont have. It looks like most people here just want domestic solutions to a real problem of energy shortages caused by nutjob enviros on one hand and idiot politicians on the other. Our whole economy is based on cheap and reliable sources of energy -- it is a necessity not a luxury. Fat and lazy many may be but you cant blame the dude that drives a Tahoe and eats 3 big macs a day for the lunacy coming from the enviros and our idiot politicians when it comes to energy issues.
Electrics are more efficient 7/28/2008 3:34:00 PM Typical coal fired power plants are 45% efficient, the power grid is about 92% efficient, charger and batteries are about 85% efficient, electric motors 95% efficient. Combined powerplant to wheel efficiency is 33% But internal combustion engines are only 15% to 25% efficient, add in the losses in refining and shipping fuel, and overall efficiency is in the single digits. For efficiency, electrics win over gassers by a wide margin. The future is electric.
Renewable electricity AND hydrogen 7/29/2008 1:20:00 PM We will have various forms of renewable electricity (solar, wind, etc) that will power the grid and then each business or home will have a co-gen hydrogen station generating hydrogen and capturing the heat for heating and hydrogen fuel for power equipment like cars, trucks tractors, etc. using fuel cells. This solves the hydrogen generation/distribution problems and most of the pollution issues with carbon fuels.
Batteries 7/29/2008 4:36:00 PM There are batteries in the works with a 10-minute charge time - nanotechnology!
Hydrogen is not feasible 7/30/2008 5:57:00 PM I don't understand why some seem to think that we can use electrolysis to produce hydrogen and use that as fuel. It is not an efficient process, being between 25% to maybe 50%. Plus it would need to be compressed to be portable and that is an energy intensive process. Perhaps I'm missing something but it would make much more sense to store the energy in batteries. Granted, we still need improvements in battery technology to reduce costs, but it makes a lot more sense than hydrogen. Also, thanks to "Electrics are more efficient" for the numbers. I had been wondering about that very issue and you answered my questions.
Li-Ion Battery Issues 8/2/2008 7:16:00 PM Li-Ion is the scariest technology I’ve encountered in my engineering career. Charge the cell to a greater voltage than its maximum it can catch on fire. Over discharge it (to too low a cell voltage or too high a rate), it can catch on fire. Physically damage it where an internal short is created, it can catch on fire. Why? Lots of energy in a small package, a flammable electrolyte, and a propensity to internally short itself when electrically abused. All the other well-known battery types have non-flammable aqueous electrolytes. We are testing a commercial celled battery with 14.6 mega joule capacity. This is the equivalent energy of about 1/8 gallon of gasoline. The battery has over 10 gallon volume. We spent months working through the safety issues. Smaller batteries elsewhere in the company have been overcharged or internally shorted and caught fire creating great damage. LiFePO4 chemistry is safer, but the flammable electrolyte is still there. Li-Ion batteries must be monitored closely to keep the cells balanced and circuitry must be present to prevent over charge or discharge. And this monitoring must not fail. Look at the laptop battery recalls. Imagine how happy you’d be having your car catch of fire underneath you. I’m not saying it can’t be done, just that it’s going to be much harder than the uninitiated are thinking now. Hydrogen is another technology I’m skeptical of. You can’t expect to produce it via electrolysis of water and get less energy out than you put in. I have yet to see anyone address the total energy cost.

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